H.G. Panzer Beret

[billbert]

At the risk of ridicule the eagle is INDEED the EXACT bevo style used on the MEYER cap just in blue and white....Billbert
apologizes extended if my OLD eyes have failed me..
I assume this was part of JC s collection..

[Glenn McInnes]

I also do not like the heavy stitching on the insignia, but so what. My druthers are not always the way things were sometimes originally done. The heavy stitching neither proves nor disproves the originality of this beret.

Tom

Hello Tom,

I don't think that anyone is questioning the authenticity of the piece but rather "when was the insignia applied".. I do find it odd that the insignia's are so tightly sewn (which I have seen done almost exactly like this on restored insignia) to copy that of some Luftwaffe factory applied insignia (these guys of course were not jumping out of airplanes) It would also be interesting to know when or rather what year these type insignias came into production.

I would think it would be rather easy to apply them to a beret cover by machine by someone wanting a Luft Panzer beret,with the mistake being the over-sewn insignia to make it look Luftwaffe factory produced.

I can't recall ever seeing a cockade as an example, ever being sewn that tight on any factory produced Luft hat that I have ever seen,have seen similar on jump smock eagles.

Perhaps I am just being over skeptical.


Glenn

[tgn]

Tom,

Since you have seen this in the flesh, or cloth so to speak...is the eagle smaller than a breast eagle of that same style? Is it the same style as a larger breast eagle? I had about fifty varieties of Luft breast eagles, but that was 30 years ago, so they are rather dim in my memory now.

Richard

Richard, the eagle is smaller than a breast eagle, which is what makes it unique.

Tom

[tgn]

At the risk of ridicule the eagle is INDEED the EXACT bevo style used on the MEYER cap just in blue and white....Billbert
apologizes extended if my OLD eyes have failed me..
I assume this was part of JC s collection..

Your eyes haven't failed you - you are correct, a Meyer cap eagle in a differnet color...

Your other assumption is also correct.

Tom

[tgn]

Hello Tom,

I don't think that anyone is questioning the authenticity of the piece but rather "when was the insignia applied".. I do find it odd that the insignia's are so tightly sewn (which I have seen done almost exactly like this on restored insignia) to copy that of some Luftwaffe factory applied insignia (these guys of course were not jumping out of airplanes) It would also be interesting to know when or rather what year these type insignias came into production.

I would think it would be rather easy to apply them to a beret cover by machine by someone wanting a Luft Panzer beret,with the mistake being the over-sewn insignia to make it look Luftwaffe factory produced.

I can't recall ever seeing a cockade as an example, ever being sewn that tight on any factory produced Luft hat that I have ever seen,have seen similar on jump smock eagles.

Perhaps I am just being over skeptical.


Glenn

Glenn, in this hobby we can NEVER be over skeptical.

However, we need to remember that the insignia was NOT applied at the factory, but was done by a local tailor. There is no consistency in how they would apply insignia. And again, if faked, where did they get the eagle?

Tom

[tgn]

Tom -

Blagojevich needs you on his defense team!!

In all seriousness, everything you said makes sense. This is a wierd piece and these are what makes the hobby INTERESTING.

MB

Mike, I would love to "defend" Blago. Oops, we lost and he got a hundred year sentence...

Tom

[Glenn McInnes]

However, we need to remember that the insignia was NOT applied at the factory, but was done by a local tailor. And again, if faked, where did they get the eagle?

Tom

Exactly what I was saying in my above post. I find it odd that if tailor applied then why sew it in a over done heavy zig zag like you often see on Luftwaffe factory produced items? Why not just sew it by hand or a straight machine stitch?

The eagle like any other type of insignia can be found I would think,perhaps more of this type were around in the 70's.


Anyway,I guess we will never know.


Glenn

[Bob Hritz]

Although I also find the stitching unusual, I would challenge anyone to produce a 'Hermann Meyer' bevo cap eagle on blue. It is the first I have ever seen or heard of.

Bob Hritz

[billbert]

Back in the 70 s when this first surfaced the likely of this being HUMPED is close to nill..probably the pair bought for less than 500..gleefully sold to last owner for no more than probably 750.. I d be happy to have it centerpiece my collection knowing its pedigree.. Thanks Tom for additional INFO..Billbert
PS As far as the GOV goes I guess the only honest guys in Illonois collect nazi stuff OR collect and used to live there...
Was the other green beret Luft or Heer???

[Bob Hritz]

Back in the 70 s when this first surfaced the likely of this being HUMPED is close to nill..probably the pair bought for less than 500..gleefully sold to last owner for no more than probably 750.. I d be happy to have it centerpiece my collection knowing its pedigree.. Thanks Tom for additional INFO..Billbert

I agree and if not for the price, which I cannot afford, would have it in my collection in a heartbeat. Then, where, oh where, would I find an original Hermann Goring panzer tuniu???????

bob Hritz

[tgn]

Was the other green beret Luft or Heer???

The green beret was Heer.

Tom

[tgn]

I find it odd that if tailor applied then why sew it in a over done heavy zig zag like you often see on Luftwaffe factory produced items? Glenn

I don't find it odd at all. A local tailor would sew it any way he pleased. I don't think he was trying to copy any factory method. I think you are letting the way you think it should be get in the way of reality in this case. I don't like the way it was sewn either, but that is just the way they did it...

Believe me, this eagle is unique. There were none like this available in the 70's.

Tom

[J Melvin]

If I had $20K, I'd spring for it. I wonder if they would take a BMW for trade.

[Johnny R]

The B II stamp is for the second of two Army Depots in Berlin, it is not a grade related to condition etc. I have no questions on the Beret itself being a period piece. As noted it comes to when was the insignia added and if it is real. I cannot comment on that but that is always the toughest question and one that maybe impossible to answer or verify. Very interesting example.

[tgn]

Unique indeed,and I keep asking myself is it in fact an original?

Glenn

Boy, you are really a suspicious fellow. First you say the eagle was probably commonly found in the 70's when the beret was first unearthed. That didn't gain much traction with us old folks because we know this is not one seen then or now. So now it must be fake???

Look, I can't prove the beret is real, but since it came out in the 70's when there wasn't much to gain by ruining an original Heer beret to make a previously unknown Luftwaffe one, I would tend to believe it is what it is, unless PROVEN otherwise.

Maybe you have something with the eagle. If you can prove that it is fake, then game over...

Maybe a side-by side comparison with an original Herman Meyer eagle would help?

Tom