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**enorepap** · 10-28-2008, 05:44 AM

Hi all

I don't see any sign of italian manufacturing style in this hat. The fabric is not of italian provenance in my opinion.

best regards

**BenVK** · 10-28-2008, 01:28 PM

I agree, looks like regular Trikot.

**Bill G.** · 10-28-2008, 09:27 PM

Thanks for the comments. As noted, I'm not entirely certain myself, and that's why I posted it. I certainly realize that all Waffen SS headgear is greeted with some/much skepticism, so the responses do not really surprise me. There should be skepticism. I’ve already pointed out that the metal insignia is postwar based upon what I have learned about such insignia. In any event, here are some observations.

Sweatband: My close inspection of the sweatband reveals that it appears to be tightly affixed to the cap interior, especially to the visor, where you usually see the best evidence of a replacement effort. As to its condition, I’ve seen more than a few visors in the past where the sweatband has not fared near as well as the host cap. This one is quite thin, and would not wear well or age gracefully. Further, why would a faker want to put a split, dog eared sweatband on a visor in this condition? A better condition sweatband could have been found. Lastly, why are sweatband ink stamps so ominous? It could be a manufacturer lot number. It’s not a “LSSAH”, or something off the wall like that.

Lining: Is there a standard lining found in fake visors? I’ve seem many fake visors, and I cannot say any one thing stood out, other than the material composition, and that some are attached in an unusual manner. Also, going back 15-20 years, all the fake WSS visors I examined has a maker diamond on the lining.

Chin cords: Why place cello cords on such a visor, when the usual silver cords are relatively easy to come by, even many years ago?

I would also add that none of the white components of the hat floresce under black light.

I'll probably bring this one with me to the next SOS for some hands on assessments.

Bill

**BenVK** · 10-29-2008, 11:54 AM

Bill, with respect, most of the holes in the sweatband are empty or certainly appear to be in the photos.

**NTZ** · 10-29-2008, 03:33 PM

There are much more things that would keep me away. First I am not even sold on the sweatband being period. It looks a lot like those large holes ones that came out in the 80’s. Then you have the lack of finish on the underside of the visor. For a kleiderkasse I am not sold. The lining texture and rollover ends. Nothing is giving me a good vive that is fore sure. Oh, then we have a 37-marked sweatband with an officer’s cap in trikot? Should I continue?
Nothing adds up.

**Dr. Strangelove** · 10-29-2008, 03:38 PM

No

No need to continue I just hope Bill dosen't have to much in this Hat as I don't like it at all. Of course the part that sucks is that if the Hat had been real when He bought it He would be getting a great return on His investment in 2008. Sorry Bill.

**BenVK** · 10-29-2008, 03:43 PM

Bill, send it to Nick, he'll be able to tell you what you've got there in 5 minutes flat.

**NTZ** · 10-29-2008, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by BenVK View Post

Bill, send it to Nick, he'll be able to tell you what you've got there in 5 minutes flat.

No problem

**stonemint** · 10-29-2008, 04:43 PM

I'm in the minority on this one, and I think it has a chance. Cello chincords are uncommon, and are particular to Altestes, but if this is one, it does not have the typical traits. I have had plenty of minty hats with rotten s/bs, so that aspect doesn't bother me, unless there is evidence of re-stitching. A hands-on is needed, and NTZ and his "black bag o' instruments" will tell in no time at all--I also recco sending it to him.

**Bill G.** · 10-29-2008, 10:21 PM

As to the empty holes in the s/b, the thread has just eroded away in some areas. If you any other holes, it's an optical illusion. On the "CN37", how do we know that represents a year? There is also a smaller, very light "7" stamped in another area. None of these stamps add any sex appeal at all to the hat.

As I said, I posted this visor for opinions, and I appreciate the input. I'll bring it with me next year. I have not collected SS cloth headgear for many years now, and this hat ceased to figure in my financial calculations long ago. I had no particular plans for it in any case, so there is no rush from my perspective.

Bill

**NTZ** · 10-30-2008, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by Bill G. View Post

As to the empty holes in the s/b, the thread has just eroded away in some areas. If you any other holes, it's an optical illusion. On the "CN37", how do we know that represents a year? There is also a smaller, very light "7" stamped in another area. None of these stamps add any sex appeal at all to the hat.

As I said, I posted this visor for opinions, and I appreciate the input. I'll bring it with me next year. I have not collected SS cloth headgear for many years now, and this hat ceased to figure in my financial calculations long ago. I had no particular plans for it in any case, so there is no rush from my perspective.

Bill

Bill bring it to the SOS if you are going. I am sure Stonemint and myself will be there. Maybe we can even get "Big Daddy" Dave Kane to come out of retirement for a few beers.

**Bill G.** · 10-30-2008, 08:04 PM

Assuming no bread lines and soup kitchens by then

, I'll be there.

Bill

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