Luftwaffe black M43 - Opinions

[Gerard/Relic Hunter]

Just playing devil's advocate, but $5500 is a dealer price. Also, I suppose one could say an item is misrepresented if sold as "original" and it is in fact a fake? Just wondering.

Gerard

I just don't think it's that cut and dry. I usually don't see many gray areas, but this may be one. Personally, I would take the cap back, as it's the right thing to do and would take character of iron. This has nothing to do with me being a dealer, this is on a personal level. Depends on what the person is made of.

I really struggle with this one. I own the cap that is shown in post 16 and bought it from a fellow forum member after he bought it from a Memphis picker. I've owned it now for almost 4 years. It was obviously a mistake made by both of us. So, now, 4 years later, should I go back to the seller and tell him he sold me a bad cap and request a refund? Sooner or later, ownership has to pass to the next person. I'd say that time period in my case, and in this case as well, has passed.

A lifetime guaranty like those offered by Bill, Gerard and Pete is one of the reasons that we agree to pay the prices for items that they sell. But, an individual, non-dealer should not be held to that same standard.

Absent some knowing misrepresentation of the cap by either Chad or the person that sold me mine, I hate to say that this is a "lesson learned" for both of us.

[Homer Hodge]

In an effort to keep this between Chad and me as much as possible, I sent him a read-receipt PM; however, he has not read or responded but instead posted his point of view here.
I see things quite differently. If I sell something as an original (even though I do so unknowingly) and it turns out to be something other than what I sold, I have an obligation to take it back for a refund. This has nothing whatsoever to do with being a dealer or not; it has to do with being honest and responsible for one's actions. The repro cap does not stop being a repro after 30 days or 30 years. It remains a repro - something other than what it was sold as. Accordingly, one's responsibility in selling it does not end either. This is not a commodity, for example, an auto, that is used and wears out over time.
Chad says (and Jack seems to agree) this was my mistake. Yes, it was my mistake to trust him to take responsibility for his actions.
I still believe we can resolve this equitably.
Homer

[Homer Hodge]

Gerard,
I think you've said it very well - it takes character to stand by your actions.
If Chad and my roles were reversed in this case, I would take the cap back and refund his money no matter the hardship to me.
Homer

[billbert]

Not meaning ANY disrepect to either party.. I must offer my small/medium spin..If I were basing my collection intersts on having an ability to find stand up guys to deal with I think I d been gone yeras ago..Every collector lives in their OWN sandbox of their own making.. some seek friendship and adulation, some addicted historically to an event and its players unsurpassed in history,and some collect because they can acquire cheaply and sell for profit..Hobby prices have gone thru the ceiling in the last 15 years or so and offers investment possibilities NEVER thought of years back.. Wanna find out how many guys are you friends and NOT your HOBBY friends..??Loose a job and see who would lend you 5k-10k to help you get thru to better times..We are a brotherhood of Hobby friends and acquaintances..some more and some less..But remember when you go into someone elses sandbox like it or lump it you play by their rules or you go home.. JMHO Billbert
I see BOTH sides on this dilemma and dont know if I fall on either side of the fence..
While some knights of the hobby have stepped up and said forever on originality issues (kuddos to them!!)..I think the HOBBY reality ranges from that door is closed ..to snickering..laughing in you face..or F ohh!!
Shake out even the best show we know of all its altered fales repros ETC
What a pile of stuff there would be.. I m done rambling on a tough issue..and sadly a great thread ..

[J Melvin]

Gerard, I'd love to take your side! I'd like my money back on the cap that I bought as well (and I've not even pointed it out to the seller). In neither case, do I think that the seller knowingly sold a fake. In both cases, all parties involved were ignorant of the fact.

I've been in the same boat as Chad before when it came to selling a prized possession. After having someone ask repeatedly to buy something, I've set it at a "you gotta be crazy to pay this, but here you go" price. Then they bought it!

I don't think that price should make the difference. But, perhaps time.

Homer, I feel for you (and me!). But, it is the minefield that we wander in the search for that rare jewel.

[Homer Hodge]

Jack, I agree with your point here. And this hobby has certainly become a minefield.
I've been in Chad's position myself (see Colorado's post of Saturday). I sold a pair of WSS helmets to Colorado that he later had doubts about. Although I had to do a bit of scrambling to come up with the price he paid, I refunded his money without hesitation. Frankly, to do anything else would have been unconscionable.
Homer

[Gerard/Relic Hunter]

Hi Jack, it's not my side, just what I would do. Just throwing that out there to think about, that's all.


Gerard

Gerard, I'd love to take your side! I'd like my money back on the cap that I bought as well (and I've not even pointed it out to the seller). In neither case, do I think that the seller knowingly sold a fake. In both cases, all parties involved were ignorant of the fact.

I've been in the same boat as Chad before when it came to selling a prized possession. After having someone ask repeatedly to buy something, I've set it at a "you gotta be crazy to pay this, but here you go" price. Then they bought it!

I don't think that price should make the difference. But, perhaps time.

Homer, I feel for you (and me!). But, it is the minefield that we wander in the search for that rare jewel.

[101combatvet]

Just my two cents..... been around for a few years now and it has always been three day inspection period and your money back unless other arrangments have been made. If the seller gave a life time guarantee then he should honor it otherwise learn your craft and pay the price for your mistake.

[Homer Hodge]

Just my two cents.....

Who were you with in the 101st?

[101combatvet]

Maybe, we should just start a new thread.

Just my two cents.....

Who were you with in the 101st?