M41 Tropical cap with GREY lining?

[Mike Bollow]

Lords & Ladies -

I just got this cap in from the relative of a vet, via one of those consignment stores. It is an ORIGINAL without question, but the odd part is that the lining is GREY, not red or green. The maker:

Heinrich Ball
Mutzenfabrik
BREMEN
1942

The original insignia is gone so I don't know what branch this was for. I will add pics shortly.

ANYBODY EVER HEARD OF A TROPICAL CAP WITH A GREY LINING??

Mike

[Gerard/Relic Hunter]

What color is the cap itself?

Gerard

[Mike Bollow]

The cap arrived with a bizzare hollywood type eagle (this may actually be the explaination for it) that the vet's relative states has been on there forever. I think as long as he can REMEMBER is the truth. The cockade is original but tacked on. The odd bird is VERY old and has been on the cap since the 50's or 60's. I removed it, hoping for evidence of the original eagle and found none except tan thread as far out as a Luftwaffe tropical eagle might be...

[Mike Bollow]

stamp

[Mike Bollow]

inside

[Mike Bollow]

grommets

[Mike Bollow]

inside of the grommets (sorry it's blurry)

[Mike Bollow]

side

[TONY Q.W.]

An original cap in my opinion. Cockade looks post war applied. If I remember correctly I have seen the same gray liner with navy insignia on a tropical cap.

[Mike Bollow]

Thanks Tony.

I hoped it was Kriegsmarine when he described it to me. This rare grey variant would be a really awesome if you are correct!

Mike

[Gerard/Relic Hunter]

It is a Kriegsmarine cap. I have had one with the same lining. I think it actually has a slight tint of blue in it. But, it's original KM, tropical.


Gerard

[afrikasandman]

Mike, great cap!! Matt

[90th Light]

The cap arrived with a bizzare hollywood type eagle (this may actually be the explaination for it) that the vet's relative states has been on there forever. I think as long as he can REMEMBER is the truth. The cockade is original but tacked on. The odd bird is VERY old and has been on the cap since the 50's or 60's. I removed it, hoping for evidence of the original eagle and found none except tan thread as far out as a Luftwaffe tropical eagle might be...

The "bizzare hollywood type eagle" is a period made Italian eagle for German forces. I have had 2 of those which I got off New Zealand returned soldiers. Although very unusual I would say that the eagle could well have been on the cap since the war and would be for WH use or naval administration. A very rare find and something I would have left on the cap via the original thread. Always do your homework before you do anything to an item is my rule.

The cap itself is a naval tropical cap and certainly correct in all respects for that maker. Nice 1942 dated one.

Could you please post a clearer image of the front and back of the eagle,

Chris

[Mike Bollow]

Here you go Chris. You are right about always doing your homework but I could never have guessed this one in a million years. It's so overseized and strange, and it was sewn on so crudely through the liner that it didn't seem possible that it was a wartime application (even though the vet's relative swore it came home from WW2 as-is). It is 3.25 inches long from wing tip to wing tip. Oh well... if it should go back on there at least it will get re-applied more nicely than before...

[90th Light]

Here you go Chris. You are right about always doing your homework but I could never have guessed this one in a million years. It's so overseized and strange, and it was sewn on so crudely through the liner that it didn't seem possible that it was a wartime application (even though the vet's relative swore it came home from WW2 as-is). It is 3.25 inches long from wing tip to wing tip. Oh well... if it should go back on there at least it will get re-applied more nicely than before...

Hello, that is definitely an Italian made eagle. The two I have came as seperate eagles and if I had not got them from the returned soldiers myself in the 1980's I would never have believe them either. My ones came as seperate eagles on a black backing and I have often wonder what branch of service they were for WH or KM ?

I have to be honest and say I have never seen one on a tropical cap so we have two possibilities with your one. A German serviceman in say KM admin put that ugly thing on his cap because he could not get something else or the US vet put it on because it did not have an eagle when he got the cap ie prisoner of war cap. Either way the cap and the eagle are 100% period. The big question now is when did they get together ???

What I would do is put both the cap and the eagle up on the Italian forum and ask there what the members think. That way you will get the opinions of both groups the cap collectors on this forum and the Italian collectors who will have seen more of that "toy-like" style of eagle.

The important thing is that you now know the eagle is good and I think the whole thing a very interesting possible wartime variation from the norm.

Best regards, Chris