Feldgendarmerie or artillery visor?

[giorgio]

Hi sturmbannfuhrer,
(first of all really beautiful cap), but sorry I desagree with you.
You're right about the Wilkins's book......but if he did deep researches at Braunschweig job bureau I think they are valid, then and now.......
For me a CW must have the CW features and the Kurz caps don't have any...........
I think that what it seems the CW letters have nothing to do with Clemens Wagner.
You're right as well about the several CW logos but I've never seen this mark clearly associated with CW mark......

Of course, always IMHO...........
Regards
Giorgio

[sturmbannfuhrer]

Hi sturmbannfuhrer,
(first of all really beautiful cap), but sorry I desagree with you.
You're right about the Wilkins's book......but if he did deep researches at Braunschweig job bureau I think they are valid, then and now.......
For me a CW must have the CW features and the Kurz caps don't have any...........
I think that what it seems the CW letters have nothing to do with Clemens Wagner.
You're right as well about the several CW logos but I've never seen this mark clearly associated with CW mark......

Of course, always IMHO...........
Regards
Giorgio

Recently Giorgio and I disagreed on the Clemens Wagner caps with Georg Kurz markings being CW distributor or Georg Kurz own made.

I went with Clemens Wagner, Giorgio went with Georg Kurz.

At that time, I did not have the following picture at my disposal (cheers to Stonemint's) maker thread knowledge database

[sturmbannfuhrer]

Add on my pic of the gen staff carmine piped Kurz visor and you have a generic area for adding in the relevant distributor name

[sturmbannfuhrer]

I will open a poll on these two visor's to gauge collector opinions, as we have additional pic that show Kurz also distributed Erel visors in this thread.

J T

[NTZ]

Clemens Wagner had many different styles of caps and used many distributors; Kurtz was one of them. As already shown so was Globus. Here is a textbook CW by Globus. It even has a CW sweatband.

[giorgio]

Hi everyone......
the cap shown by NTZ is a CW "distributed" by Kurz
the other caps are "made by" Kurz
Globus could be the "grade"of the cap.........
of course always IMHO......
Warmest regards
Giorgio

[NTZ]

Hi everyone......
the cap shown by NTZ is a CW "distributed" by Kurz
the other caps are "made by" Kurz
Globus could be the "grade"of the cap.........
of course always IMHO......
Warmest regards
Giorgio

Globus is not the same distributor. They were in Nurnberg

[NTZ]

Giorgio, don’t take Wilkins book as gospel. Although the best book out it is still full of errors. Look at his web page and addendum for his book. He swears the Erel Ideal is not a period visor. Well we just seen definitive proof that is untrue. Some of the “makers” in his book were actually distributors and vice versa. Great book but not the final word.

[NTZ]

Here is proof that Globus was a stand-alone company (distributor). From the NTZ collection here is a cap box for Globus & an inventory/price tag.

[NTZ]

tag

[giorgio]

Giorgio, don’t take Wilkins book as gospel. Although the best book out it is still full of errors. Look at his web page and addendum for his book. He swears the Erel Ideal is not a period visor. Well we just seen definitive proof that is untrue. Some of the “makers” in his book were actually distributors and vice versa. Great book but not the final word.

Hi Nick, for sure you're right, I don't take the Wilkins as Gospel.........
but I'm sure that Kurz made visors by himself.
When he acts as distributor, beside his mark the cap shows the typical features of the original makers (CW or ErEl), but when he acts as maker he has his own typical features.
Maybe the fact to find the "globus" mark as well is a kind of "brand"......
Regards
Giorgio

[NTZ]

Hi Giorgio. In all the Kurtz & Globus visors I seen they were distributor caps. All have been CW’s from what I can remember. Do you have any pics of a stand alone Kurtz? The logo in those Kurtz caps I am 99.9% sure is a trademark of Clemens Wagner. In fact so is the CW logo as seen on this sweatband. In fact this is the SB from my Globus. This particular patent was one of Clemens Wagners. I call it the Erel riip off sweatband.

[sturmbannfuhrer]

Great work Nick, these replies would be great on the new thread I have opened for this subject.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=303611

[sturmbannfuhrer]

There is so much information available on the WAF that i have located another Wagner, that really seals the deal for me.

Behold, a fully marked Clemens Wagner with distributor mark and the same sweatband as the type in the disputed visors I posted previously.

Here's one for Giorgio and Carlo to inspect, like to hear your views on this one gents and how this one affects your views on Clemens Wagner as you know them, because this visor shows the Kurz and Globus marked caps to be of Clemens Wagner manufacture.

As there as two threads to this view, I have posted this on each

J T