The Superfakes: The Triple Serial #s

[Lenny W]

Nice try at flaming, and another positive contribution to the forum. Since they are so obvious, there is one for sale on a dealers site--tell us which one it is. As far as my hat is concerned, it was posted here along with the matching greatcoat (made by the same tailor) several months ago--didn't see you pipe up then,
nor when Derek started the "Numerical Markings" thread.
We knew they were fakes, but we didn't know the maker--so why didn't you tell us all the mystery maker back then, since it was "so obvious"?

With all due respect, after you started a thread several weeks ago wondering what a wreath was in your collection (an "obvious" Postschutz wreath), I have to take your comments with a grain of salt.
Try contributing instead of trying to tear down for once.

i have to bite my tounge when it comes to coments like that. after someone took the time to teach others great work stone guys like me who dont handle this type of cap that often really helps ,your time and research is much appreciated from the breif discusion we had about the subject at the bar at the SOS and now a follow up with this thread great job oh and must hot forget Derek and Bob for there contribution as well

[Paul McKee]

Chris,

Thanks for taking the time to share this information with concrete examples rather than collector heresay. Your efforts are sincerely appreciated!

Paul

[NTZ]

Stonemint don’t mind Peter. Peter like the rest of us has some positive things to contribute but then again he makes comments like this and gets everyone worked up. I disagree with Peter. Yes they are fakes but obvious? I think not. Not unless you were around when they first hit the market. I think these look much more like a period cap than the Alg SS Peter owns and claims is period. To me that is obvious.

[PMan]

Obvious Fakes

Nice try at flaming, and another positive contribution to the forum. Since they are so obvious, there is one for sale on a dealers site--tell us which one it is. As far as my hat is concerned, it was posted here along with the matching greatcoat (made by the same tailor) several months ago--didn't see you pipe up then,
nor when Derek started the "Numerical Markings" thread.
We knew they were fakes, but we didn't know the maker--so why didn't you tell us all the mystery maker back then, since it was "so obvious"?

With all due respect, after you started a thread several weeks ago wondering what a wreath was in your collection (an "obvious" Postschutz wreath), I have to take your comments with a grain of salt.
Try contributing instead of trying to tear down for once.

Hi Stonemint!
Well, I said what I said because I meant it. I'll bet the hats even smell new. I just think they look obviously fake. I didn't mean to get anyone upset, honest.
As far as the postschutz wreath is concerned, I think I had an idea what is was, I had never seen another before. I don't collect odd paramilitary hats. For all I knew, the wreath could have been post war. I wouldn't mind owning a postschutz hat however.
Peter

[PMan]

Hi Nick

Stonemint don’t mind Peter. Peter like the rest of us has some positive things to contribute but then again he makes comments like this and gets everyone worked up. I disagree with Peter. Yes they are fakes but obvious? I think not. Not unless you were around when they first hit the market. I think these look much more like a period cap than the Alg SS Peter owns and claims is period. To me that is obvious.

Hey Nick,
I see you could not resist bringing up the allgemeine hat discussion again. What's obvious to me is you never came up with 1970's era pictures of a fake allgemeine ss "em" hat with embossed ruins. You said "you were on it". Did you locate any images? Just curious. Peter

[NTZ]

Hey Nick,
I see you could not resist bringing up the allgemeine hat discussion again. What's obvious to me is you never came up with 1970's era pictures of a fake allgemeine ss "em" hat with embossed ruins. You said "you were on it". Did you locate any images? Just curious. Peter

Peter because I could not find a pic in my files does not make it any more or less real. I am only human you know. I can’t have every fake made on file. But you are right, I could not resist. My bad.

[PMan]

"odd"

Hi Stonemint!
Well, I said what I said because I meant it. I'll bet the hats even smell new. I just think they look obviously fake. I didn't mean to get anyone upset, honest.
As far as the postschutz wreath is concerned, I think I had an idea what is was, I had never seen another before. I don't collect odd paramilitary hats. For all I knew, the wreath could have been post war. I wouldn't mind owning a postschutz hat however.
Peter

I wanted to step in and say that I didn't mean to use the word "odd". Unusual or obscure is a better word. I did not mean to sound like I was looking down on anything. All original hats are beautiful. I have a totally stone mint DAF em hat that I really like.
Peter

[stonemint]

Hi Stonemint!
Well, I said what I said because I meant it. I'll bet the hats even smell new. I just think they look obviously fake. I didn't mean to get anyone upset, honest.

Peter

Peter--I will bring up my old thread on my Gendarmerie Officer's visor and you can explain why it is an obvious fake.

[PMan]

Peter--I will bring up my old thread on my Gendarmerie Officer's visor and you can explain why it is an obvious fake.

Bring it on!

[Bob Hritz]

Hey guys, don't jump on Peter Manzie. Peter and I became friends when the dust you see all around was MINT!.

I have had Peter look at things for me and his knowledge about SS uniforms and hats is very powerful. Believe me, Peter has saved me from making a number of expensive mistakes. What Peter sees as obvious is from years of scrutiny. While I was playing with insignia and other trinkets, Peter was studying SS uniforms and headgear before I was aware of anyone doing any serious faking. It was going on, I just didn't know about it.

On top of that, I consider Peter Manzie a true friend and I value the closeness of our, and our families', friendship.

Bob Hritz

[PMan]

Thanks

Hey guys, don't jump on Peter Manzie. Peter and I became friends when the dust you see all around was MINT!.

I have had Peter look at things for me and his knowledge about SS uniforms and hats is very powerful. Believe me, Peter has saved me from making a number of expensive mistakes. What Peter sees as obvious is from years of scrutiny. While I was playing with insignia and other trinkets, Peter was studying SS uniforms and headgear before I was aware of anyone doing any serious faking. It was going on, I just didn't know about it.

On top of that, I consider Peter Manzie a true friend and I value the closeness of our, and our families', friendship.

Bob Hritz

Thanks Bob!

[Kurt]

I hope it's OK if I turn back to the subject. The signals visor that started this discussion/research is still in my possession... I am not an "old collector" but I have to admit that I was immediately suspicious with this one. There is something about the cloth used (especially the colors) and the shape of it that are entirely different from those visors in my collection that are "verified" original WWII. As you can see, however, I am entirely unable to clearly define what it is exactly... thus, I asked some experts...

I can tell you that very experienced collectors have also been fooled by this one (I showed it to several other collectors)--- after my post, I even received some emails about this particular visor reasuring me about it's originality. BTW --- it also shows age and it definitely smells old !!! (I know, but don't you like to smell them too? )

Thanks to stonemint, there is finally a solution. At least there is one clear feature by which we can now detect this particular reproduction. Thank you stonemint for putting in so much effort!!!

Kurt

PS: Stonemint --- I will return the signals visor next weekend --- let me know if you need more photos of any details for your research!

[stonemint]

I was just tipped off to this monstrosity--definately not some of Herr Breuer's best work:

[stonemint]

This s/b sets the record for the most serial #s (RZM tag looks good, though):

[NTZ]

I even received some emails about this particular visor reasuring me about it's originality.

This is the problem around here and in the hobby. You have guys that will argue points right or wrong which is great that is how we all learn but then you have those that hide behind the scene bitching about how those idiots Dave Kane, Stonemint and NTZ, etc are wrong. I think a lot of that is the inability to learn due to arrogance and in part the protection of ones own assets. (good or bad). Personally I never ran across one of these until stonemint contacted me. I listened to the evidence (Bob Hritz was a major part of this) and I am now 1000% sure these are post war. If I ever handled one I am sure I would have came to the same conclusion but it was a good learning experience. Some of the guys shooting you these emails need to check the ego at the door and learn a little. You can wish something real all you want but it is what it is. Maybe one of these guys would like to participate and plead a case for originality. That is what makes the forum work.