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**Gerard/Relic Hunter** · 02-27-2008, 08:07 AM

My opinion is post war. Look at the typical early post war thick waterproof lining, "thin" shaped visor, texture of the piping and color of it, that is not PzG. Also band color of the wool. I think it is early border guard in the western section of Germany, obviously with the insignia replaced.

Gerard

**Glenn McInnes** · 02-27-2008, 08:08 AM

Certainly not 3rd Reich mfg..IMO.

Glenn

**jacquesf** · 02-27-2008, 08:20 AM

I agree with Gerard. Over and above the lining, the piping to me is not right and the color is definitely not panzergren. Jacques

Originally posted by Gerard/Relic Hunter View Post

My opinion is post war. Look at the typical early post war thick waterproof lining, "thin" shaped visor, texture of the piping and color of it, that is not PzG. Also band color of the wool. I think it is early border guard in the western section of Germany, obviously with the insignia replaced.

Gerard

**solo** · 02-27-2008, 09:39 AM

Unfortunally Turbo,this not TR period.The waterproof lining and the piping are for sure postwar,BW in my opinion.
Sorry
Carlo

**Kreager** · 02-27-2008, 11:21 AM

I'm in agreement with the rest on this one.

**turbopanzer** · 02-27-2008, 01:29 PM

Hi

HI Tanks for all your answers.
I thougt i had get rid of all my bad visors at this moment,i am very happy to a part of this forum and have learn a lot from you gentlemens.

This visor i have bougt from a dealer.

Description is

Army officers extramutze for panzergrenadier branch by Gottlob Kurz.
this neat cap is made of a fairly dark,good quality trikot wool with a decidedly green tint to it.The cap band is a bit lighter a shade of green than the usual dark blue/green (badge cloth)color. the light,grass green pazergrenadier piping is wowwen cotton cord,not wool.The cap extrior has pretty extensive,general soiling,wich includes a liner brownisch mark on the top panel(about 1.5"long)almost like a gouge,but not. The crown piping is also soiled,and there looks like some slight fading to the top edge of crown piping.On the other hand,thers no definitive sign of mothing!

The officer chin cords in twist aluminum are narrow,the pebbled buttons are silver finished over brass base. The cap is nicely shapped with a high,well point front crown-the sides are smartley tapered. The cap has fine set of crisp alumium insigna, but the eagle may have been repleced (theres some light wear and discoloration to the wool in in this area that may indicate another insigna,but nothing identifiable). The visor sound,thougt with overall fine crazing-noneteless,adegree of gloss still remains.

The intreor has dusky tan visor underside and a light tan, natyral leather band ,(moderate to havy soiling from honest wear);the band is in great condition with hardly any threads loose.The size is about 57. The top lined in a laminate-like tangerine orange material,with faint spiral design motif visible at the right light angle. The sides are lined in tan colored(may once have been tangerine)cotton cloth,wich looks quite faded. The remains of moisture shild are still present ,by way of a small piece or two. There is an unusual black woven cloth makers label "feuerwehr bedarf,Gottlob Kurz,Weisbaden-Igsyadt,gegr.1893."fire department Supply") Acurled paper tag in what remains of moisture shield name slot has handwritten name:"Schenk.

I shall try to get some fotos in daylight toomorow to show the piping.Still like the cap very much.I tought it look very nice under the hood,and the sewing look ok.I hope i still have hope its real and not something postwar ****

Best regards

Turbo

**enorepap** · 02-27-2008, 03:46 PM

Hallo turbo

There's a GOTTLOB KURZ Gmbh in Wiesbaden, Hinterbergstr. 14. It was established in 1893 but was always mainly involved in medical articles. This is a quote from the Wiesbaden Stadtmuseum:

"Gottlob Kurz stammte aus dem Schwarzwald und hatte bereits einige Jahre Berufsätigkeit in einer Stuttgarter Drogerie hinter sich, als er sich entschloß, 1893 in Wiesbaden in der Bahnhofstraße sein eigenes Geschäft für „Hebammenbedarf“ zu eröffnen. Wiesbaden zu Beginn der 90 Jahre, das war die schnell wachsende Stadt (1880: 52238 Einwohner; 1900: 86111 Einwohner) mit hohen Geburtenraten, das war aber auch die Stadt der – seit dem ersten Internistenkongreß 1882 - zahlreichen Ärztekongresse und des wissenschaftlichen und medizinischen Informationsaustauschs. Es gab also für eine Pionier auf dem Gebiet der Geburtshilfe und Säuglingspflege gute Gründe, sich gerade in dieser Stadt anzusiedeln. Das offene Ladengeschäfte in der Innenstadt wurde denn auch bald zu klein. Gottlob Kurz siedelte aus: Ein Firmen- und Wohnhaus wurde 1900 in Igstadt gebaut, das Ladengeschäft freilich weiter betrieben. Der patentierte „KURZ-Original-Wiesbadener-Hebammenkoffer“ in seiner, wie es in einer Anzeige von Gottlob Kurz heißt, „dem Hebammenberuf dienenden Ausführung“, wurde „das unentbehrliche und zuverlässige Rüstzeug für die verantwortungsvolle Tätigkeit der Hebamme“. Die Nachfrage wuchs und bald wurdenicht nur der europäische Markt beliefert. Auch Amerika verlangte nach dem Wiesbadener Hebammenkoffer. 1914 – 1916 wurde bei der Firma noch ein neues Fabrikgebäude errichtet."

On the other hand, it is quite sure that they produced scabbards for police bayonets during TR period and firemen headgears after the war (please note your label Feuerwehr Bedarf).

I hope this will be useful.

best regards

**Lasse Kongo** · 02-27-2008, 04:04 PM

Definatly not III Reich era!

Lasse

**Gerard/Relic Hunter** · 02-28-2008, 07:58 AM

Can someone post a BZG visor cap for him to compare? Preferably the early one with the large eagle on top.

Gerard

**Lasse Kongo** · 02-29-2008, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by turbopanzer View Post

HI Tanks for all your answers.
I thougt i had get rid of all my bad visors at this moment,i am very happy to a part of this forum and have learn a lot from you gentlemens.

This visor i have bougt from a dealer.

Description is

Army officers extramutze for panzergrenadier branch by Gottlob Kurz.
this neat cap is made of a fairly dark,good quality trikot wool with a decidedly green tint to it.The cap band is a bit lighter a shade of green than the usual dark blue/green (badge cloth)color. the light,grass green pazergrenadier piping is wowwen cotton cord,not wool.The cap extrior has pretty extensive,general soiling,wich includes a liner brownisch mark on the top panel(about 1.5"long)almost like a gouge,but not. The crown piping is also soiled,and there looks like some slight fading to the top edge of crown piping.On the other hand,thers no definitive sign of mothing!

The officer chin cords in twist aluminum are narrow,the pebbled buttons are silver finished over brass base. The cap is nicely shapped with a high,well point front crown-the sides are smartley tapered. The cap has fine set of crisp alumium insigna, but the eagle may have been repleced (theres some light wear and discoloration to the wool in in this area that may indicate another insigna,but nothing identifiable). The visor sound,thougt with overall fine crazing-noneteless,adegree of gloss still remains.

The intreor has dusky tan visor underside and a light tan, natyral leather band ,(moderate to havy soiling from honest wear);the band is in great condition with hardly any threads loose.The size is about 57. The top lined in a laminate-like tangerine orange material,with faint spiral design motif visible at the right light angle. The sides are lined in tan colored(may once have been tangerine)cotton cloth,wich looks quite faded. The remains of moisture shild are still present ,by way of a small piece or two. There is an unusual black woven cloth makers label "feuerwehr bedarf,Gottlob Kurz,Weisbaden-Igsyadt,gegr.1893."fire department Supply") Acurled paper tag in what remains of moisture shield name slot has handwritten name:"Schenk.

I shall try to get some fotos in daylight toomorow to show the piping.Still like the cap very much.I tought it look very nice under the hood,and the sewing look ok.I hope i still have hope its real and not something postwar ****

Best regards

Turbo

______________________________
Hi Turbo,

Looks like the cap came from Bill Shea? I belive it is only he who uses this extramütze bla-bla in his descriptions. Amazing a deler of his caliber can sell something so obviously bad. Where did the other visors come from? The nice and original ones?

Really amazing thinking that he works with Gary Wilkins, one would guess he could spot this one, but obviouly not.

Hope you get your money back!

Lasse

**Kreager** · 02-29-2008, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by Lasse Kongo View Post

______________________________
Hi Turbo,

Looks like the cap came from Bill Shea? I belive it is only he who uses this extramütze bla-bla in his descriptions. Amazing a deler of his caliber can sell something so obviously bad. Where did the other visors come from? The nice and original ones?

Really amazing thinking that he works with Gary Wilkins, one would guess he could spot this one, but obviouly not.

Hope you get your money back!

Lasse

Lasse, I don't think this one came from Shea at all (lets see what Turbo says). Here is why I came to this conclusion.
1. Turbo's write up has paragraphs-Shea uses one long Paragraph
2. Many misspelled words and easier words at that-thinking it's someone not fluent with the US-English spelling.
3.Shea always seems to end his paragraph with a positive final sentence. This does not seem to have that feature.

These are all assumptions until we hear back from Turbo.

**turbopanzer** · 02-29-2008, 03:56 PM

Hi

Hi Lasse ,Kreager and aall
The Sonderfurer,Signal and Panzergrenadine are from Shea/The Ruptered Duck.

The LW NCO ,LW EREL ,LW GAR ,Gebjeger,Geb/pioner and Beamte kriegsdauer are from PvL/Millitaryantiques.

The Beamte are from Oslo weapon and millitary show in Letohallen

About the tekst i wrote Kreager ,i am wordblind,dont now if thats the right word in English but it is in Norwegian,so the spelling problem is probably because of me and its more than 20 years since i learn English at school.

Bill sounds as a nice fellow ,and its probably gone go smooth.Bill have lots of stuff i can like, so i probably get some other items. I give 1975,.USD fore it.

Peter is always nice and easy to deal with.

I hope somebody aallso have a pic about one Grensshuts from BRD, it would be nice.

I be back with news whats happend

Best Regards

Turbo

**Kreager** · 02-29-2008, 04:20 PM

I wish you the best, I hear Shea is a resonable guy to work with. Can't wait to hear the outcome. I'm pulling for you.

**Lasse Kongo** · 02-29-2008, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by Kreager View Post

Lasse, I don't think this one came from Shea at all (lets see what Turbo says). Here is why I came to this conclusion.
1. Turbo's write up has paragraphs-Shea uses one long Paragraph
2. Many misspelled words and easier words at that-thinking it's someone not fluent with the US-English spelling.
3.Shea always seems to end his paragraph with a positive final sentence. This does not seem to have that feature.

These are all assumptions until we hear back from Turbo.

Very true!!

But in the end it where.

Amazing!

Cheers
Lasse

**turbopanzer** · 04-10-2008, 06:13 AM

News

Hi All
I have had very nice talks with Bill and he is a man of he s word it was very easy and no hassel on this deal ,and i want to show you all what i get.

I am sorry i dident get a Visor ,but i think its a very nice item anyway ,and i shall use it on a uniform. I will post the rest on the right forum.

Regards
Turbo

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