Otto Hoffman visor

[Felix]

[quote=NTZ;2485277] Here you have the best provenance money can buy and named to a very, very important figure that himself confirms this was his cap. quote]

Yes provenance is VERY NICE, I agree, and its a darn nice cap for sure. But I think his role in the final solution is a bit overestimated. I would not call him very very important. Thats the words I would use for Reinhard Heydrich or Adolf Eichman. Otto Hoffman didnt play that active role, but he participated in the Wannsee conference, according to what I can find out just now. Ok, he was invited and a natural choice because of the department he was head of. But didnt play that important role. (btw I was in Wannsee 1988 when it was still west Berlin - but little did I know of this then. But I remember it as very nice relaxed place)

I still think the price is crazy. But sure, if someone want to pay that kind of money for a named Generals Visor its their business.

My initial point was that instead of admiring dealers asking these kind of prices its important to let them know how crazy that is. That will benefit to all of us collectors in the long run. (that mean all of us who want to slow down the price race) It will most likely not affect the marked very much as an isolated happening. Still its all part of the excuses to increase the price of items with history through the roof. In this case its like some almost think the cap is even more nice because a fantasy sum is asked. Thats sick.

No personal criticism to you NTZ or anyone else (and no hard feelings). I just wanted to give another side of the pricing than the holy dealers want us worship. I can understand that a few of the contributors of this thread got wet dreams. So wet they forgot to think.

Lastly I have not picked at guys with cash. I envy them. Still I think of the rest of us who cant afford the ever climbing prices. And hey, if any of my items got provenance I will just double the price when I sell it

[NTZ]

I should note that Don Wood is not really a dealer in the true sense so it is not like a few things I watched at the SOS pass through three sets of hands to jump $20K in price. Just a really nice guy with a great artifact.

[jotuntroll]

Hi
Regarding the naming, I have seen two visors with 100% provance one offiser and one nco with the paper tag machine written and pressede under the pointy square room for it.
Both served in SD.

[Frederico]

I think the price is quite fair for such a unique and named visor that every collector could only dream of having it in his collection. My personal choice would be to save and spend money for one or more top items than to spend it for several less rare and common items. I think that many collectors who participate on this forum have spent for over 45,000 usd already on their collections.

[Panzer Rob]

Please don't get me wrong - I really do appreciate and respect the historical significance of this visor, as well as the unquestionable provenance behind it. I just can't comprehend the asking price of $45,000 - or better yet someone actually paying that much cash for it. I mean... that's a hell of a lot of money

Also, are Allgemeine-SS and Waffen-SS General's caps really selling for $25,000+ ??? If so, I guess that's another piece I can cross off my wants list


Rob

[mjfur]

I really don't understand the issue with price. People, Dealers, whomever can ask what ever they wish for an item. If you feel the price is to high, don't buy it.

Trying to artificially keep prices low by admonishing dealers so "everyone" can afford the hobby is a fantasy. Some people will be priced out of the hobby or limited to what they can afford. You may not like it but, that's just how the real world works.

I like Ferrari's. I own a Corvette. Reason being, Ferrari won't lower thier prices. No matter how much I complain or admonish them. Go figure.

I guess I could of invested my money in a better education rather than militaria. Then I could have gotten a better paying job and bought the Ferrari or SS Generals Visor. Nah, easier to complain on WAF.

On a side note, any of the over price complainers ever turn down an offer that was just "too much" money??? You know what I mean, when someone offers you $3000 for your typical Luftwaffe Officers Visor and you say "No, thats too much. I'll take $1000". Didn't think so.

Regards,
Mike

[Texasuberalles]

I would expect the original owner to put his name on the tag in the slot, But all that Bumpf about Gruppenfuhrer and Gen Leut etc etc, that tag in my opinion is not original, Hoffman wouldn't need to state all that, just his name.

He told his adjutant to put his name in it.....
He then just took the Hoffman's 'business' or 'calling' card or a piece of his letterhead paper, cut it to shape, and inserted it. I've done the same thing making myself a tag for luggage, havent you??

[Felix]

I really don't understand the issue with price. People, Dealers, whomever can ask what ever they wish for an item. If you feel the price is to high, don't buy it.

Some people understand and some people fail to understand. Yes the price is too high and I will surely not buy it. There are still items for real prices. Seems to me like you have missed a lot of threads on different forums during last years about the escalating prices.

Trying to artificially keep prices low by admonishing dealers so "everyone" can afford the hobby is a fantasy. Some people will be priced out of the hobby or limited to what they can afford. You may not like it but, that's just how the real world works.

Or try to artificially raise the prices? You know before OPEC coordinated the production limits the oil prices were really low. Now they can control the situation on an expanding market with increasing demand. Result being high prices. Now thats not really the situation for militaria since its stuff people do not need to survive and dealers dont have a price club (or maybe some dealers have). However its a comparison. Acceptance and admiration or pure "I dont give a damn about what things cost" will result in higher prices. I doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

I like Ferrari's. I own a Corvette. Reason being, Ferrari won't lower thier prices. No matter how much I complain or admonish them. Go figure.

Have fun with your vette!

I guess I could of invested my money in a better education rather than militaria. Then I could have gotten a better paying job and bought the Ferrari or SS Generals Visor. Nah, easier to complain on WAF.

I do believe that sound reactions on high prices will affect the prices. Lots of dealers have been stuck with items because they have overpriced them. Classical example is Kai Winkler who is going out of business and now offering a 50% discount and still cant sell the rest of his stuff. Some stuff at other dealers sites has to be lowered because the price was too high. And yes, there has been complaints on the forums and people read it and wait to buy. A lot of collectors are just to desperate to have that thing and toss up what ever it takes. With the forums I hope they get down to earth a bit.

On a side note, any of the over price complainers ever turn down an offer that was just "too much" money??? You know what I mean, when someone offers you $3000 for your typical Luftwaffe Officers Visor and you say "No, thats too much. I'll take $1000". Didn't think so.

Thats not the issue here. We didnt see some guy dropping a 135 K on table to take the cap. But you got one point, most of us are guilty of the price race to some extent. We all like to get our money back or a little profit. That goes for me as well.

Regards,
Mike[/quote]

I think you missed my bottom line here. Its sound to sit down and think about it. And its a sound thing to react on astronomical prices.

[Felix]

Ofcourse the market is a supply and demand situation. I know that. I also know that for high end items the sky is the limit.

But, what will be the next step for dealers/sellers when we go screaming
" I wish I had the money to buy it right now" "Its a fair price for this item" etc..???

It will be 60 K next time!

A lot of sellers test the market and lower prices afterwards if it was too high. Now, go figure!

Im sorry all for being such a complaining SOB But I think its for a good reason... Maybe Im wrong... Maybe not...

[Bob Coleman]

Yesterday's Crazy Prices Can Be Considered A Bargain At Today's Standards. Unique, One Of A Kind Items, Are Not Always For Everyone. I Recently Bought Back Sepp Dietrich's Leather Overcoat I Uncovered Back In 1974. Don Owned It For Over 30 Years.
As To The Label With The Title, I Find No Problem With That. I Have A Black Overcoat, Belt And Cross Strap That Belonged To Hans Lammers. One Day, I Happened To Lift The Tongue Of The Belt Buckle Adjustment And Found A Paper Label Glued In That Not Only Had Lammers Full Name And Rank, But Also The Positions He Held.
I Would Love To Own The Visor Cap In Question. However, It Is Out Of My Budget Right Now.

[mjfur]

I really don't understand the issue with price. People, Dealers, whomever can ask what ever they wish for an item. If you feel the price is to high, don't buy it.

Some people understand and some people fail to understand. Yes the price is too high and I will surely not buy it. There are still items for real prices. Seems to me like you have missed a lot of threads on different forums during last years about the escalating prices.

Trying to artificially keep prices low by admonishing dealers so "everyone" can afford the hobby is a fantasy. Some people will be priced out of the hobby or limited to what they can afford. You may not like it but, that's just how the real world works.

Or try to artificially raise the prices? You know before OPEC coordinated the production limits the oil prices were really low. Now they can control the situation on an expanding market with increasing demand. Result being high prices. Now thats not really the situation for militaria since its stuff people do not need to survive and dealers dont have a price club (or maybe some dealers have). However its a comparison. Acceptance and admiration or pure "I dont give a damn about what things cost" will result in higher prices. I doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

I like Ferrari's. I own a Corvette. Reason being, Ferrari won't lower thier prices. No matter how much I complain or admonish them. Go figure.

Have fun with your vette!

I guess I could of invested my money in a better education rather than militaria. Then I could have gotten a better paying job and bought the Ferrari or SS Generals Visor. Nah, easier to complain on WAF.

I do believe that sound reactions on high prices will affect the prices. Lots of dealers have been stuck with items because they have overpriced them. Classical example is Kai Winkler who is going out of business and now offering a 50% discount and still cant sell the rest of his stuff. Some stuff at other dealers sites has to be lowered because the price was too high. And yes, there has been complaints on the forums and people read it and wait to buy. A lot of collectors are just to desperate to have that thing and toss up what ever it takes. With the forums I hope they get down to earth a bit.

On a side note, any of the over price complainers ever turn down an offer that was just "too much" money??? You know what I mean, when someone offers you $3000 for your typical Luftwaffe Officers Visor and you say "No, thats too much. I'll take $1000". Didn't think so.

Thats not the issue here. We didnt see some guy dropping a 135 K on table to take the cap. But you got one point, most of us are guilty of the price race to some extent. We all like to get our money back or a little profit. That goes for me as well.

Regards,
Mike

I don't belive I missed the point at all. People/Collectors want items for as little as possible. Cars, hats, gas, etc. it's all the same.
And then "we" want to sell them at a profit. Pretty simple.

Times have changed. In the last 15 years the computer has linked everyone in the world. I can search for militaria in 20 countries in 1 hour. Collecting is more accessible to more people, prices go up.

If no one offers $45K, maybe it will go down to $35k. Who knows? It's the owners decision.
How would you like if we let the "forum members" set prices on your collection?

Regards,
Mike

[Felix]

If no one offers $45K, maybe it will go down to $35k. Who knows? It's the owners decision.

Well, you see its not entirely up to the seller if he has a wish to sell it. When enough people have complained he will realise its just too much! Or atleast next time he will think twice when fixes the price tag. Other dealers will also see this and the rumour will spread.
If a potential buyer is a SMART buyer he will try to bargain it down and not just accept "Ok, its 45 K and I have to pay that price because this is the real world and only loosers complain".

When people go singing "the cap is worth every cent" I think there is a slim chance he will lower the price and rather wait.

/The looser SOB Felix

[Felix]

Ahh well, it seems I was out on deep water with my price attack here.
It seems like 45 K is a fair price after all since so many accepts it without hesitation. The next price level at 60 K will also fair! and beyond....

The sky is the limit and lets go have fun and let the money flood

There is no tomorrow just more militaria!

Rock on!

"Felix" - N. Hansson

P.s. I will think twice before questioning any price set by a dealer/seller! Its all fair prices. The market rules!

[BrianK]

As long as it's real let people pay what they want for it - the classic Economic maxim - "Somethig is worth what someone is willing to pay for it" applies here. Since it's SS, it's part of a world-wide fad & probably will go up & up & up, even through the coming recession. A smart buyer would do well to get hold of something like this, as I am not so sure non-SS stuff will hold up as well.

[TxGauleiter]

$45k spread out over many common pieces that take up a lot of space and are replaceable, or $45k in a single exotic, one of a kind piece?

If I had a chance to trade everything I have for 1 uber-piece, I would do it in a second and start building a new collection all over again around it...

When you have the chance to snag something like this, and have the means, I say do it, because seldom does the same opportunity pass a second time....