Another tropical Pz cap, to good to be true ?

[90th Light]

Hello Tim, the tropical eagle and tropical cockade on your tropical panzer officers cap are originals and worth good money in their own right.

Also many of this style of cap have been made out of original WW2 German tropical olive coloured material.

These caps puzzle collectors, they seemed to have originated from Poland in the 1980's and have been rejected by serious DAK collectors right from the start. There are some features however which are good such as the eagle, cockade and in some cases the material. Other features however are way off such as the grommets and that sweat band on yours looks to be a shocker.

Of all the reproductions these are one of the better ones. Some collectors will argue however that they may in fact be ok and are un-issued stock found in the east when the Berlin wall came down but I personally do not think that many reading this will support that view.

All the best and I hope this is of some help, Chris

[Mark Gibson]

Here's another cap which I bought many years ago. As you can see it wouldn't stand up compared to originals but when you're just starting out, no references or great places like this forum to learn and thinking with your heart...

Mark

[Mark Gibson]

An interior shot which wouldn't fool me these days but, never having seen an original, it did back then.

[Mark Gibson]

Finally a shot of the insignia. Note the reproduction eagle and cockade...of course if you study originals and compare the difference with these you will see.

In case you're wondering, both caps are still in my collection...but at the bottom of a wood chest.

Mark

[90th Light]

Finally a shot of the insignia. Note the reproduction eagle and cockade...of course if you study originals and compare the difference with these you will see.

In case you're wondering, both caps are still in my collection...but at the bottom of a wood chest.

Mark

Must be my monitor but I can not tell if I see good or bad . As always you can not beat a hand-on inspection but Mark could we please have a clearer shot of the eagle, cockade, soutache and grommets.

Many thanks and best regards, Chris

[Mark Gibson]

Hello Chris,
good to see you, it has been a while.
I've posted some closer pics which will show the insignia to good effect. As you can see the eagle is a well known repro as is the cockade (red dot with a little bulge known to be fake). When compared directly with originals the difference in both is quite obvious.

Mark

[Mark Gibson]

Here are the grommets...nice and flat, definitely not good. If I came across a cap with grommets like this today I would be very skeptical.
Just for interests sake, a UK dealer has one of these caps for sale as an original. Of course try telling them it is fake.

Take care

Mark

[90th Light]

Hello Mark, thank you for the extra images.

I now see some things I like and some things I do not

What I like is the way the eagle, cockade and soutache have been applied.

What I do not like is those grommets on a DAK although I have seen that style on early M34 sidecaps and officers M38 sidecaps. Are they magnetic ? I also have a DAK sidecap which has been repaired with that style of grommet. Could we please see a close up of the front of the grommet ?

The material which the lining is made out of looks unusual ??? and the breast feathers on the eagle are strange ??? Do the badges glow under a black-light or does anything else glow for that matter ???

It is always so hard to tell just by looking at an image on a computer because a reproduction can always look as good as the "real deal" until you handle it. Have many other serious DAK collectors handle this cap and come to the same conclusion as you have

Another thing in the back of my mind is the fact that some German troops struggled to get a tropical sidecap in 1941. They did not appear in any abundance until 1942 except for Panzer ones which existed right from the start in 1940. One of the branches you do see sometimes wearing them in 1941 is artillery troops. The only veteran brought back sidecaps which I have ever had, have been artillery, panzer and possibly engineers.

Reproduction tropical sidecaps are no where near as comman as the billed M40 because they do not command the interest or the price so your example is very interesting in more ways than one.

Look forward to your reply when you get a chance, Chris

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hello 90th Light

Very good to hear from you and your very helpful comments about my cap, and Mark G's interesting OS cap. I did have a good Brandt OS cap to compare the insignia with, and was thinking the insignia was good, eagle has good claws etc. Polish made DAK cap with German insignia (then its really rare cap, just kidding). Good to know i just paid alot for tropical cap eagle and cockade and not complete loss...thanks as always Chris.

Christopher, thankyou for posting your early goof also. Soutache on a Nov '42 dated Brandt would raise my eyes too, although I think there are a few legit late soutached caps out there. Still nice Brandt that maybe you can fix ?

Mark G, your first Pz cap posted also is interesting, the insignia would scare me now, but maybe not along time ago. Now your OS cap is sorta a mix isn't it ?
The material is close to original except maybe for inside, and Chris adds lots of good observations, But the Eagle on this OS cap doesn't quite look right ? Again weak feet and almost no claws (that I see.) Grommets are flat not concave so that would worry me too, even along time ago I was aware that the grommets are a good area to study very closely. Wasn't aware that flat ones appeared later in the war.

Again thanks to all who share info on good and bad DAK caps, anymore ?

Really good discussion so far...

best
Tim

[90th Light]

Good to touch base with you too Tim. Your interest in Militaria and enthusiasm for the subject plus knowledge of the DAK is appreciated,

Chris