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**LeeG** · 11-09-2007, 10:30 AM

Mark,
I like your cap -- for what it is worth, Gary Wilkins has a similar looking cap without the false turned-up material in his big book on headgear of the Third Reich.
-Lee

**djpool** · 11-09-2007, 11:46 AM

Its a beauty!

WR Jim

**NZMark** · 11-09-2007, 02:05 PM

Thanks Lee and Jim,
I was sent these pictures overnight by a good friend in the States with his

.
I have never seen this book, but the construction on the photographed cap is exactly the same - I'm talking about stitching and materials, not just appearance.
It was also suggested that the lack of stampings is an indicator to a 42 date - just when manufacturers were ordered to remove their information and change over to the RB# system. Apparently some were issued before the numbers were allotted. I say 42 as Bill Shea is selling a pair of tropical shorts dated 42 with RB#, and the sweatband material is not yet the oilcloth lined version.
I am trying to find out when/where this cap came from initially.
These photos come from Gary Wilkins book 'The Collector's Guide to Cloth Third Reich Military Headgear' published by Schiffer 2002.

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**NZMark** · 11-09-2007, 02:09 PM

A nice side view.

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**NZMark** · 11-09-2007, 02:17 PM

Paul,
Thank you for the views of your wonderful cap! I'd like to see that one at some point - I believe a mutual friend has it?

Your input is always welcome.
Could this be considered the rarest factory produced tropical EM's version?
Best Regards,
Mark

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Caps 001.jpg (112.6 KB, 380 views)

**BenVK** · 11-09-2007, 02:41 PM

Hi Mark, I see nothing about your cap that would cause any reason for concern. In fact, it looks great and I'd have it in my collection no problem.
I find this type of cap to be the most interesting of all. They might have made a few thousand of this style back then but now, with only a few remaining, they stick out as being a-typical when in fact they were probably very typical because maybe they were all issued to a certain division at a certain time and place.
I would bet that at some point, a photo album will surface and all the soldiers in it will be wearing this same construction cap.
Just a thought...

**BenVK** · 11-09-2007, 02:50 PM

What was the strengh of the AK at it's peak anyway? 30,000 men?

**NZMark** · 11-09-2007, 03:06 PM

Hi Ben,
Thanks for the reply - I like the theory - quite logical. I have heard that there is a very clear period photo of one being worn. Hunting that photo down will be almost impossible as it is in private hands.
As for troop numbers in North Africa, you might be suprised to learn that between 120,000 and 130,000 surrendered in Tunisia in 1943, so add on the scores that preceded these figures, I'd put the total at about +/- 150,000 men(?)
Regards,
Mark.

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**BenVK** · 11-09-2007, 03:43 PM

Wow, well, that just goes to show that a few thousand caps of this style wouldn't add up to much in the overall allocation.

I think that sometimes as collectors, we assume that because if something isn't "textbook" or whatever that means, that it must have been either field made or private purchase etc. The real reason is probably what I'm trying to get at, a limited production run back then that is so scarce to find now, we tend to get nervous.

As a side note, I will never forget watching a colour documentary about the fall of Berlin and seeing images of German POW's, all young boys, some of whom were quite clearly wearing tropical caps meant for the Afrika campaign?

**NZMark** · 11-10-2007, 03:03 PM

Hi Ben,
I'd like to see that piece of film at some point. It does not suprise me at all that un-issued stocks were thrown into the mix at the end. It must be remembered that cap production exceeded actual issue numbers by about two to one, the idea being to cover losses through shipping and air interception and the usual wear and tear in the field. Actual wartime production of tropical caps between 1940 and 44 may well have exceeded over a quarter of a million...the fact that so few are with us today shows the huge numbers that were issued, worn out, destroyed in transit, buried with their owners or worn to death in POW camps.
Thanks to all who have taken the time to respond. Much appreciated, and all comments are welcomed. I would have thought, though, that placing such a rare cap as this on WA to both share and gain knowledge would have caused more interest than a common m43, (which appear to get huge interest and feedback) but it seems that isn't the case.
Regards to all

Mark.

**BenVK** · 11-10-2007, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by NZMark View Post

. I would have thought, though, that placing such a rare cap as this on WA to both share and gain knowledge would have caused more interest than a common m43, (which appear to get huge interest and feedback) but it seems that isn't the case.

Strange but true but I wouldn't worry about it. My pink piped WSS visor didn't get that many responses either and that was like finding the holy grail for me. In fact I think I got told to stop showing off!

I wish I could find that documentary for sale somewhere, it had some fantastic footage.

BTW, I've been trawling through photos trying to find one of your type of cap in wear. No luck yet but if I do, I'll be sure to post it here.

**90th Light** · 11-10-2007, 08:48 PM

Nice cap and very unusual

My understanding is that they were never worn in Afrika but originate from one of the manufacturers for German forces in the east. Could even be an SS maker hence no RB or RF number which SS makers do not seem to use.

Anyway any pictures of them turn up in Russia. Went quickly through my books and found one picture of the black panzer version being worn on page 32 of the Japanese publication "Der Panzerkampfwagen Tiger der Front Bildband und Tiger Fibel im Bild"

Look forward to what others can find, Chris

**NZMark** · 11-10-2007, 09:59 PM

Hi Chris,
Thanks for the input. I have heard an interesting story from someone I trust completely that one of these caps was picked up in Morrocco in 1943 by a British serviceman from a POW who had hand embroidered it with 'AFRIKA 1942-43' with a palm tree and Mosque. My source actually owned it in the late 1970's.
Maybe an SS manufacturer? Possibly an economy measure? Maybe even completed during the period between a maker made the cap, but before they could stamp it with the new RB# system being implemented as the had yet to be issued a number...
But these were issued in 1942 in North Africa, it seems, as well as in other areas. I hope more information can come to light at some point? Who knows...
Regards,
Mark.

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**90th Light** · 11-10-2007, 10:46 PM

Mark, in my haste to post I put the wrong page in that book

. I have now changed it to the correct page 32

.

Have just gone back and looked at the picture again. The unit is 503 and it was taken in August 1943, Russia and the commander of Tiger 331 has just got the EK1. The commander is the one wearing a cap like yours. Like in all black and white photos it is hard to exactly judge the color shade of the cap but it looks black like the M34 side-caps being worn by the others around this commander. On the other hand it could also be a dark chocolate/brown olive shade.

I have seen two other pictures of this strange dark colored SS tropical style M40 being worn by WH troops with WH badges. I will try and find them but they were both in Russia. When I saw the pictures I wondered what was going on and the cap you have posted could well explain it.

Very hard to comment about the embroidered Afrika example without seeing it but it is of course entirely possible. In fact there is always the chance of a German soldier out-fitted in Russia and then sent to Afrika, e.g. GR47 in 42/43. Many collectors of DAK seem to forget that the units in southern Russia were also to be out-fitted with tropical uniforms when necessary from 1941 onwards. There does not ever seem to have been much research into this area such as when in 1941 ?, which units ?, was it done in parallel with the equipping of the DAK being sent to Africa ?

The use of RB/RF numbers by the SS is another aspect which enters into the study of this cap. Recently on the forum it was raised that many advanced collectors would not trust an SS M43 cap with an RB/RF in it. Well since that thread I have begun to research this and put together a database of what numbers SS items do have in them. My feeling at this stage is that you can get a period made SS M43 made by a Wehrmacht manufacturer who has applied their respective RB or RF number. Such SS M43 are not common however and warrant caution for obvious reasons. Well why can your cap not be the reverse situation, a WH M40 made by an SS manufacturer ?

Again such a cap is rare but this would explain the style of the cap and the lack of an RB/RF number. I must add however that the SS may have eventually adopted that number system but they never put the RB/RF in front of the number series. Also their use of this block-type number reference came later than the Wehrmacht adoption in 1942. (This theory is of course speculative on my part at this stage and subject to ongoing investigation)

Anyway probably enough said by me, except to say you have a very interesting cap there and I hope if nothing else my contribution here might motivate some others to also enter into this analysis.

Watching with interest, Chris

**MilitaryCollect** · 11-11-2007, 12:00 AM

Tropical EM's m40

Hello,

Your cap has much in common with the SS M-40 cap (posts 20, 23, 28, 29, & 30) & and the Luft M-40 cap (post 14) and the Wilkens M-40 cap (posts 33 & 34). Please note the hats' common placement & distance between grommets, stitching under the bill, cloth sweatband, and paint color on the grommets [appears tan]. Moreover, the SS & Luft caps appear to be made from identical material while the Wilkens cap looks very similar if not identical. Your's may be the next step in that it incorporates true "DAK' tropical cloth.

Perhaps these caps were constructed by the same manufacturer(s) first using the SS tropical material. Perhaps that cloth was used until being exhausted or, more likely, until the traditional DAK cloth was made available. Perhaps that is why your cap does not contain a maker's mark - because it was an SS manufacturer that received a production contract outside of its ordinary spectrum and they didn't have or desire a Heer RbNr (contract & manufacturer) stamp for it.

Its a rare cap and therefore I suspect it was quickly placed into production in late 42'- early 43' to meet the need for the quick build-up of troops for Tunisia.

Undoubtedly, there were units destined for Russia and then transferred to Afrika in whole or part. It's been estimated though that around 2/3 of Germany's military might & resources were poised in Russia. Therefore, Rommel may well have received replacements & occasionally entire units destined for Russia. However, I think entire units would have been rare though, considering the diminished significance of the Afrikan Theatre when compared with Russia. http://www.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu/~lugert/wwii.htm Afrika was a sideshow in relation to Russia.

I think that it was the other way around. I have several DAK soldbuchs from soldiers who served in Afrika and then in Russia. All had been wounded in Afrika, recovered in Germany and then reassigned to Russia. My best is from a Panzer Rgt. 5 tanker who served in Afrika and after recovering fromm head wounds, served with the 18th in Russia (Kursk). Interestingly, most German soldiers in Afrika did not take leave for fear they would be rounded up and sent to the Russian front. I've read that account in several DAK vet's interviews and actually saw a DAK vet say those just that on the now famous "World at War" series narrated by Sir Lawrence Olivier (Afrika threatre episode):

http://wgordon.web.wesleyan.edu/kami...twar/index.htm

I have that VHS and will find the counter on the tape for reference in anyone is truly interested.

Great thread!

... damn cat is chomping on the computer cables so I'm on and off line.

Christopher

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