Reichsleiter White-top

[Lasse Kongo]

Not for my collection.

Looks like a high quality outside and a very low quality inside (Sweatband-RZM tage etc).

I would need to be much more convinced with a similat cap which is known to be original and well known for long time.

Lasse

[NTZ]

Since it is an RZM contract piece, I would also expect a contract type lining.

[dukhunter]

Reichleiter White-Top Visor

Hello,
Whether authentic or or not, I must say this is a beautiful cap and, if authentic, one very rare piece with great, historical provenance! However, with that said, I have to admit that I am not a cap person and know very little regarding the construction of these caps. I do realize that many of the private manufacturers of these visors offered a good, better, best selection when it came to the quality desired by the purcahser. Not sure if RZM items offered the same.

In reading the description of this particular piece, it states that the cap comes with a private purchase cotton top, hand embroidered wreath, and an ivory silk lining w/RZM label. Since this cap is a contract/RZM produced item, are these upgrades commensurate with items manufactured as such? It seems to me, the uneducated and unwashed, that a cap with all these bells and whistles would/should be a privately produced piece. Anyway, if one of you has time, please, I'd like to know your thoughts. Thank you very much.

dukhunter

[Robert H]

I will cannot state the inside is from low quality at all. There are alot of different inliner versions out also in regards to the quality and under the RZM, especially for later war visor caps. Example with late war RZM SS Officer hats etc. For this Reichsleiter visor cap I cannot say much about it as maybe the purchaser has more history about it then others. I just can say there is enough original untouched stuff out where many people would say this or that is not right because they just haven't handled it before.

[Pieter Verbruggen]

I will cannot state the inside is from low quality at all. There are alot of different inliner versions out also in regards to the quality and under the RZM, especially for later war visor caps. Example with late war RZM SS Officer hats etc. For this Reichsleiter visor cap I cannot say much about it as maybe the purchaser has more history about it then others. I just can say there is enough original untouched stuff out where many people would say this or that is not right because they just haven't handled it before.

...nothing to add.
Pieter.

[derek]

I, like Robert, really wouldn't feel comfortable about posting my opinion on this cap without seeing the cap but there is one thing I feel I have to point out. As far as I know the RZM tag is one of the earliest forms and yet is inside a cap with a 1939 pattern oakleaf wreath. I have not handled the hat nor know anything of its provenance, so, if it is genuine the company that made the cap used an obsolete RZM tag. Certainly a detail that would make me want to check the hat out carefully.
Derek

[NTZ]

Even with a hands on inspection of this visor I sill might not trust my own opinion. It is so rare there is not much frame of reference unless something glaring sticks out. The RZM tag does make you wonder though.

[Robert H]

the early stuff was quite larger marked

[stonemint]

I knew I had seen this visor somewhere--it is on page 20 of the Shutt book, so it was in the US as of 1980/81 (but is unattributed)--this tells me something, and only deepens my suspicions:

[stonemint]

I generally shy away from collecting Form 1 & 2 headgear, generally because they are not as aesthetically pleasing as Forms 4/5. Here is Reichsleiter Schwarz's form 2 visor cap:

[stonemint]

Here is the large, white RZM label for Schwarz's cap--I have never seen this on a Form 4 visor. Note that this one (like a lot of these early ones) was on the top, w/o a sweatdiamond:

[stonemint]

Now, here are my concerns regarding the Buch White-top:

1. The early RZM tag on a form 4 visor.
2. Look at how large the band is in relation to the oakleaf wreath and the rest of the cap--I haven't seen this much room above/below a wreath on any NSDAP cap.
3. Look at the top and how diminutive it is to the rest of the cap--it is disproportionate. It really isn't even a sattel, either.

4. We know it isn't one of the early Form 4's or else it would have the upswept oakleaves on the wreath, so it can't be excused as some sort of transitional model.

5. There is no padding to the white-top--it is what I would call a "thin-brim" rim.

6. Look at the chinstrap--there are no slides on either side--rather suspect for an RZM-piece.

7. Personally, at this level, I would expect a private purchase hat, but RZM is not out of the realm of possibilities--but then why not conform to RZM specs overall regarding band width/crown height, etc?

8. The pleats are much to puffy/pillowy for me. I would expect them to lay flat after 68 years.

9. The inconsistent wear is also a factor.

[NTZ]

I knew I had seen this visor somewhere--it is on page 20 of the Shutt book, so it was in the US as of 1980/81 (but is unattributed)--this tells me something, and only deepens my suspicions:

Did you watch those videos yet? There are a few goodies in them.

[stonemint]

I have seen these wreaths on bands that have yet to be applied to a cap--they are rare, but do exist. Ernst H is right--this wreath is crooked in relation to the band, which may be why it was never used (at least until this cap was made)--how could an RZM approved company let this go out for sale, and to a Reichsleiter at that? Surely, he would have had their RZM license revoked!

IMHO, this dates from the late 60's/mid seventies which would explain all the errors on the cap--they were not consistent with what we now know today.

Thus endeth my opinion. Any other thoughts/comments?