Zillmann's visors

[enorepap]

Hi all
I think it's time to start a thread about this dubious maker.
Here are some examples:

Block red ZILLMANN without “Die OZ Mutze” and address-telephone number on a single row







Fraktur ZILLMANN with “Die OZ Mutze” and address-telephone number on two rows





Italics black ZILLMANN with “Die OZ Mutze” and addresstelephone number on two rows








I think these are all fake.
Any information about?

Best regards
enorepap

[NTZ]

I have not seen one I thought war real but this one might have a chance. Do you have the rest of the pics?

[stonemint]

Here is where my little knowledge on fonts becomes a dangerous thing. Isn't this Zillman type-face almost Helvetica, which wasn't developed until 1957? I believe the word is "sans-serif" or something like that. I know I have seen the Zillman type-face in a more "serif" type font, which I believe is wartime, while these are not. Any thoughts? (This is where DA is really needed)>

[solo]

I have not seen one I thought war real but this one might have a chance. Do you have the rest of the pics?

I'm with Nick and Chris,this is the only one could be original,I don't like the others ,the lining the sweatbands ,all fake IMO
Carlo

[enorepap]

Hallo Nick and Chris

In general terms, the second pattern is the only one that could have a little chance indeed... I will try to dug the full set of images out from my files, if I have still maintained them.

[enorepap]

Ciao Carlo

You are right!

I think it would be also very interesting to examine the iconography of the Zillmann's logo, starting from the identification of the drawing (a bear...a wild boar with some mountains in the background)

Cheers

Marcello

[CollectRussia]

These hats do not look good to me, but the funny thing about Helvetica, I also believed it was useful to determine pre or post 1957 until I saw a few definitely original German WW2 pieces with a type face that looked to my eyes the same as Helvetica. Turns out the German printing industry had something very similar since 1898!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akzidenz_Grotesk

Helvetica seems to be a knock-off.
Dave

Here is where my little knowledge on fonts becomes a dangerous thing. Isn't this Zillman type-face almost Helvetica, which wasn't developed until 1957? I believe the word is "sans-serif" or something like that. I know I have seen the Zillman type-face in a more "serif" type font, which I believe is wartime, while these are not. Any thoughts? (This is where DA is really needed)>

[NTZ]

Ok you guys went way over my head with this font thing. All I can say is I never seen this mark on any pre 1945 visor yet. Yes DA would be of great assistance on this one. He would probably know who was housed at that address pre 1945.

[stonemint]

I believe this is an original Zillmann--note that it is not in the Helvitica style of the fakes. This pic is from Vol 2 of the Moran book.

[stonemint]

Here is the full page:

[enorepap]

Hallo Chris

I think you have inflicted a deadly blow to the doubts about the logo I defined "fraktur Zillmann with Die OZ Mutze and address-telephone number on two rows". A close comparison with the last label you've posted reveals some pronounced differences indeed, in favour of your example.

It's enough to take a look to the untidy printing of the whole logo and particularly to the different shape of many capital or small letters, apart from the use of a sort of "m" lower case instead of "w" in the Schweinfurt inscription.

Consequently, I consider that the pattern I posted yesterday is a definite trick one!

[dubs_28]

I did a quick search on Otto Zillman and found this thread and I believe that the second Zillman posted pic that some arent sure about is a Latvian fake...compared to others I have seen and handled

[Robert H]

company existed at this place, faked copys are out. the photos on the top show such of the faked caps. ehen someone knows a little bid about language it is obvious the one with the grey inliner is a copy.

[Renaud]

An other Zillmann's

Hello all

here is an other Zillmann visor ; I'm not the owner, but I promised him to show it ; have you some opinions about it ? I can't tell about its authenticity. Thanks a lot.

[stonemint]

It has a nice shape on the outside, but I believe it is a re-worked Janke.