WSS NCO Panzer Visor Cap!

[MattS]

My 2 cents worth..
First of all, beautiful caps! They make a nice couple.
Ben, it's called verdigris defined as "a green or bluish patina formed on copper, brass, or bronze surfaces exposed to the atmosphere for long periods of time, consisting principally of basic copper sulfate. "
Doug, according to Wilkin's book, SS NCO and EM visors were always piped in branch colors, while officers wore only white piping and generals wore silver. The main difference in caps was the lining quality and the cap band on enlisted caps being wool while officers band's were velvet. The authorized the change from white piping for officers to specific branch colors in 1940 was short lived due to Himmler's uneasiness with his troops using the army system of piping.

[aardvark]

"cap band on enlisted caps being wool while officers band's were velvet"
Matt...did you actually answer my question about band material? I think you did! And it took a relatively new member to do so...good for you. Forgive my ignorance...I don't collect SS and was just wondering out of idle curiosity.

regards,

Mark

[MattS]

I'm just repeating what I read!
Of course, there are exceptions, such as an NCO getting a field promotion or otherwise upgrading his cap with officers silver cords as is seen here. Hence the officer's cords but wool cap band.
You're welcome!

[BenVK]

Ben, it's called verdigris defined as "a green or bluish patina formed on copper, brass, or bronze surfaces exposed to the atmosphere for long periods of time, consisting principally of basic copper sulfate. "

Thanks, I know what it is, I just can never remember what it's called!

On the subject of cap bands, another option was to cover your black wool band with a velvet band if you so wished, or couldn't afford a brand new cap, when promoted to Officer. Actualy, I've never understood why this would happen, the price of a visor was very reasonable back in the day actualy compared to other items of uniform and it was all about status after all, especially in the SS.

[PANZERPIONIERE]

Both excellent caps! That SS is the best!
Steve

Looking for anything pertaining to Pi.Btl.16 or Pz.Pi.Btl.16

[DougB]

Doug, as usual you break the mold. Great visor

[derek]

"Doug, according to Wilkin's book, SS NCO and EM visors were always piped in branch colors, while officers wore only white piping and generals wore silver. The main difference in caps was the lining quality and the cap band on enlisted caps being wool while officers band's were velvet. The authorized the change from white piping for officers to specific branch colors in 1940 was short lived due to Himmler's uneasiness with his troops using the army system of piping."

Matts,
If you're quoting Wilkin's book then I'm sorry to say that according to what I have read the statements are inaccurate.
The order of May, 1940 to introduce waffenfarbe for the cap includes officers up to the rank of SS-Oberfuehrer.
SS NCO and EM visors were not always piped in colour.
If Himmler was uneasy with the army system of colours why did the SS use and expand the use of waffenfarbe on shoulderboards after 1940?
Does he give any documentation for this statement?
Derek

[MattS]

I'm just quoting here, page 66, "1. Other Ranks caps (for NCO and enlisted grades) were piped in the wearer's Waffenfarbe. 2. Officer caps up to the rank of general were piped in a universal white, irregardless of the wearer's branch. 3. Waffen-SS general rank officer caps were piped in silver".

I know little about SS caps and I'm just quoting here, but it does seem that color piped SS EM caps should not be as rare as they are. Wilkins does say on page 64 that some reasons for the rarity could include the fact that the SS was a smaller branch of the armed forces, that many of the combat leadership was killed in the field leading to thier caps being destroyed, and that at the end of the war many men ditched their SS uniforms in order to avoid undue consequences when captured. The third explanation seems very likely if you've ever seen the photos of SS guards at the camps trying really hard to blend in and not be recognized. Many were beaten or shot on sight, thus proudly wearing your SS cap would not have been wise.

Ben, if you speak French, just remember "green grease" (verdi - gris).

[N.C. Wyeth]

On the subject of cap bands, another option was to cover your black wool band with a velvet band if you so wished, or couldn't afford a brand new cap, when promoted to Officer. Actualy, I've never understood why this would happen, the price of a visor was very reasonable back in the day actualy compared to other items of uniform and it was all about status after all, especially in the SS.

Every once in a great while you see something strange without reasonable explanation. I happen to have a WSS Officer visor that has a band of material professionally added by the Officer to cover the hats original velvet band - presumably to protect the wear of the velvet(?). The totenkopf badge is placed over this "protective band", and it makes for quite a unique "oddity" when compared to other examples. Mr. Hritz will probably remember this cap - it is strikingly odd to say the least . . . .

Brad

[BenVK]

I remember that cap.

[derek]

What colour is the band Brad?
Derek