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Ok, so we're looking at a reproduction that's been around for while then yes? I really struggle with pz sidecaps.
Regarding the grommets, this one is identical and on a cap sold by the collectors guild. Also bad?Last edited by BenVK; 07-21-2007, 10:45 AM.Comment
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hello,
few comments, among other "curious" points :
if eagle was reapplied, then it should be throught the lining,
or the lining material should show signs of having been put off and reseewn too.
the cocarde is EM/NCO model, not an officer's one.
no leather renforcement strap in the inside front of the sidecap,
typical on officer's models.
if the sidecap was almost not worn, then the degree of fading of manufacturer stamp seems too heavy.
why grommets show signs of missing paint inside the cap, and not outside ?
so just with that, i think it would be wise to pass on it.
and Ben,
for your question about comparizon with grommets of a sidecap sold on collectors guild,
i wouldn't be comfortable with ALL items for sale on this site;
no problems with most of them, but doubts for few of them.
IMHO.
regards
derkaComment
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re,
Albert,
maybe an effect of translation from french with my poor english.
but for me, typical (typique) doesn't mean regular (réglementaire).
i think the partial (in very few ex. complete circular) leather sweatband positioned at the front forehead section on officer's sidecaps is typical.
i disagree with you when you write "Not on issue pieces".
because i've seen some sweatbands obviously mounted during the manufacturing process on issue (no private tailoring) officer's sidecaps.
i saw some too which were added later.
on another hand, less officer's sidecaps i saw had no sweatband and never had one (no evidence of removing).
the lack of sweatband on an issue sidecap doesn't mean automatically fake for me,
but a sweatbant originally mounted on an issue piece is perfectly possible from my point of wiew.
most of issue officer's sidecaps i observed had one,
so i think it is a typical point, wich is different from a regulation point.
for the paint on grommets,
i didn't express my thought correctly;
i just wanted to point that black paint outside should have been faded too if there are signs of alteration of the paint on the grommet inside,
not meaning that paint on the grommet inside is normal.
just my opinion,
i hope it is clearer now.
regards
derkaComment
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When a "Willy" stamp looks like that it's a kiss of death for me.
I have seen zillions of different "Willy" stamps lately and I only feel 100% comfortabel with 1 of them...
For the rest of the cap I think Mr.McInnes and Mr.Singer has pointed it all out.
Alot of fake side caps is being made in central europe right now. Most of them with Willy Sprengpfeil markings.
A easy way to avoid them is to learn how an original "Willy" marking looks like...
Best regards: Hasse MarnellComment
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I appreciate all the comments but can someone just tell me in plain english what is wrong with the grommets on both of these caps?Comment
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Another example of this style grommet on a regular army sidecap posted by Mark Gibson recently.Comment
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Ben - I have a decent collection of M34 caps, and the only one that has a grommet like yours is my motorcycle recon one made by Clemens Wagner... and I half think it's bad. The rest are quite varied...Comment
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Could you post the grommet to compare and the CW stamp to see if it's a bad one?Comment
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Here's the front. The bevo insignia is much more brownish than I have ever seen.Comment
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grommetComment
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Reenactorfest,
I would have serious doubts about this one as well.
Glenn"A Man's Got to Know His Limitations"Comment
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This is very good advice and I agree 100% but it is also important to keep in mind that there is more than one style of original stamp for this cap maker.Originally posted by Hasse.M View Post
It depends on what year the stamp was made and which manufacturer made the stamp. What I have found is that certain years are consistent ie 1936 verses 1941. Also certain division / departments of the factory. Study every known original you can handle, take note of the font and all measurements.
Fake stamps fail in several ways once you know what the good ones look like,
ChrisLast edited by 90th Light; 07-29-2007, 02:22 AM.Comment
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Ben, the one point which has not come out in this discussion is that the grommet in question is made of Aluminum with an anodized finish. This is why the finish appears on the grommet inside the cap because it is applied when the aluminum is manufactured. The reason for the wear on the finish on the inside is damage done when the grommet is crimped into the cap. Several I have seen have been like this.Originally posted by BenVK View Post
These aluminum grommets seem to be point of real controversy. Many collectors simply do not like them but no-one seems to have proved one way or the other if they are period or not. I have seen them on the odd cap I have liked but I have also seen them on caps that I felt may have been made from chopped up greatcoats. (In fact it was my previous discussion with Mark Gibson which got me doing more research into this.) I have never seen this type of aluminum grommet on a cap by Willy Sprengpfeil
What would help here and take this discussion forward would be if people could post images of any Aluminum grommets in their caps. Comparing these with zinc or steel grommets which never seem to have finish on the reverse side is limited. We need to also compare with known original aluminum ones as well,
ChrisLast edited by 90th Light; 07-29-2007, 07:49 AM.Comment
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