HG Panzer M43?

[90th Light]

Showing the nap on the unexposed wool,

Chris

[90th Light]

There is still nap remaining around the badges but it is very, very close to the edge of the badge on the exposed areas. However on the unexposed areas, it is competely intact. Here are 2 images of the exposed areas still showing nap in the shape of the eagle and between the eagle and the cockade,

Chris

[90th Light]

Comparison of the later 1943/ 44 black panzer wool that this M43 is made of with a 1940/ 41 black panzer sidecap made from earlier quality wool,

Chris

[Zauberflöte]

.... I don't think I have ever seen a black one with a padded cockade. ..

It appears this could be one (with added metal eagle)..?

2nd image showing the more common blue-grey trap.

[OSS]

I have not seen the left hand image before but I have the original image of the other one is in my collection. I don't recall seeing a single button black m-43 nor a two button type with a padded cockade. The aluminum cap eagle suggests a certain degree of customization and may not be indicative of issue caps, but it is a nice shot and thank you for bringing it to our attention.

[Zauberflöte]

...The aluminum cap eagle suggests a certain degree of customization and may not be indicative of issue caps, ...

I agree, that will remain speculation. Still it is less likely IMO that a former trap would have been removed and replaced by these seperate insignia; also because often the alu eagle was simply placed agross it.
But it being originally a modified Heer issue cap could very well be a possibility of course.

Herewith another one with blue grey trap.

[90th Light]

I agree, that will remain speculation. Still it is less likely IMO that a former trap would have been removed and replaced by these seperate insignia; also because often the alu eagle was simply placed agross it.
But it being originally a modified Heer issue cap could very well be a possibility of course.

Herewith another one with blue grey trap.

Hello Zauberflöte,

it would be a rare WH M43 to have a single button pull down flap ??? .

Not impossible but rare indeed. In fact a black WH M43 with a single button is very rare. In my opinion that cap started life as an SS/ LW black panzer M43 or some other political organisation. Excellent photo especially with the padded/ embroidered LW cockade

Also interesting, the 3 black panzer caps with LW blue-grey trap posted in the three seperate photos. All have bakelite/ composite buttions and the same shaped squared button pull down flap. They appear to be by the same manufacturer ???

Many thanks for posting,

Chris

[OSS]

Hello Zauberflöte,

it would be a rare WH M43 to have a single button pull down flap ??? .

Not impossible but rare indeed. In fact a black WH M43 with a single button is very rare. In my opinion that cap started life as an SS/ LW black panzer M43 or some other political organisation. Excellent photo especially with the padded/ embroidered LW cockade

Also interesting, the 3 black panzer caps with LW blue-grey trap posted in the three seperate photos. All have bakelite/ composite buttions and the same shaped squared button pull down flap. They appear to be by the same manufacturer ???

Many thanks for posting,

Chris

The cap with the metal eagle is almost certainly not a Heer model, and while possibly a rebadged W-SS, I think it is likely LW in origin, either a dyed blue gray type or possibly even a previously unknown single buttom LW Pz..

[90th Light]

The cap with the metal eagle is almost certainly not a Heer model, and while possibly a rebadged W-SS, I think it is likely LW in origin, either a dyed blue gray type or possibly even a previously unknown single buttom LW Pz..

Interesting, have you ever seen a beyond doubt LW or WH cap that was redyed black before May 1945 for Panzerwaffe use ??? I have read about the Germans leading the world in that type of cold dying but I have never seen an example of such a cap that I was 101% certain of.

On the other hand, this is the model and manufacture of cap that I was thinking of. This is an example shown in the recent Beaver/ Shea book on SS hats & caps. There is a possibility that this maker produced a production run or two of these for the LW in blue grey & black. Or they aquired some SS black examples and simply added LW insignia as the photo in post number 79 would seem to imply,

Chris

[90th Light]

Then again,

there are always the extremely rare ones in field grey

Chris

[Zauberflöte]

Then again,

there are always the extremely rare ones in field grey

Chris

[HAF]

super photo

[90th Light]

Thanks Zauberflöte,

I am reposting this again because in my opinion, this is also the extremely rare field grey wrap & cap being worn,

Chris

[Leroy]

Not so rare if you were in the right place at the right time.

[Willi Z.]

Not so rare if you were in the right place at the right time.

Those aren't GIs though, so their possessions and uniforms are probably safe.