Poll 2

[NTZ]

After a disagreement regarding common practice for cap makers regarding how and when insignia was applied I decided to start a poll.

Lets only address private purchase caps.

[Ernst-H]

How is it possible to choose between the two options.

Many lower grade caps had no choice insignia whatsoever. They would simply run of the productionline complete.

The Private purchase caps where probably made with pre-selected materials and insignia.........and thus fully assembled in one go.

And then of course you had the middle of the above two.....barren caps that went to a cap-store where the buyer could handpick insignia which would then be added to the cap.

All was done and none were standard for every visorcap in the entire TR period

[NTZ]

I agree with you. Contract caps were probably pre made. I should have said private purchase only.

[NTZ]

Guy think of this for a minute. Companies like Erel, Schellenberg, Pekuro, etc were firing off 3,000+ visors per month (see Wilkins). Do you guys really think the every cap was a special order? No, the officer came in and picked out the cap with their waffenfarbe and chosen material then added insignia options. I could almost guarantee they kept a large inventory on hand. Then choose the type of insignia they wanted. Do you really think with a production level like that guys pre-selected how they wanted their caps built? Ah yes I would like an Inf with wide piping, doeskin, thick chin cord and make that a tan interior with a light tan sweatband and visor. Thank you I will be back in one year to pick it up. Come on, you have to use common sense sometimes. These guy were in a war. They didn't have time to wait for a custom visor to be built.

[Chris_Werner]

You could probably select chin cords and bullion or metal insignia, but not much else IMO. My guess is the "blank caps" wer those that were intended for bullion, which is why you see bullion sewn through the lining regularly.
And why would someone want a high quality visor with silk interior with some metal pins sticking through that beautiful, hand sewn lining?!

[PMan]

Pins through lining

You could probably select chin cords and bullion or metal insignia, but not much else IMO. My guess is the "blank caps" wer those that were intended for bullion, which is why you see bullion sewn through the lining regularly.
And why would someone want a high quality visor with silk interior with some metal pins sticking through that beautiful, hand sewn lining?!

Years back, I purchased an Allgemeine officer hat from a vet. The hat was in worn condition. The eagles pins (prongs) were never pushed through the hat material. Instead, thread loops were sewn to the hat material and the pins were bent through the loops. This made the eagle rather loose fitting to the hat, but that's the way it was.
Peter

[Lasse Kongo]

I belive it could be both way even on private purchase caps. Specially with manufacturter having many different classes, the lower ones wher for sure with insignias allready from start. But I belive it was more common that the insignias where added to the buyers specification.

Lasse

[Soldat de Fer]

Hello
There is a picture somewhere , showing the window display of a famous Berlin tailor , all the cap inside already had their insignias , does not prove either way but considering the difference between the Heer and SS cap , it would be safe to assume that , cap came with the insignias already on the cap . Regarding private purchase , it would have been up to the owner to select his own insignias and the cap would have be delivered complete.
Regards
P-Y

[NTZ]

Since this poll I had the pleasure of adding at least 3-4 more completely unissued and untouched private purchase caps to my collection. Two came right from the vet’s family. All had prongs under the lining. In fact one looks to have had the wreath attached before is was 100% complete as the way it is built it had to be on before the cap was complete.

[tgn]

I think it is a mute point. I have original hats with the insignia pins attached under the lining and others through the lining. I think mass production hats probably had "hidden" insignia pins, but if the insgnia was lost, damaged or upgraded, the next set certainly was through the lining. I also think there were custom ordered hats with the insignia put on after the hat was completed.

BTW, did you ever notice that early em visors almost always have insignia pins through the lining?

Do you really think they gave a crap either way?

Tom

[Robert H]

black SS visors:
private purchased black visors RZM or Sonderanfertigung from a tailor store where sold w/o insignias.