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**NTZ** · 03-09-2007, 06:43 AM

In real good condition Orts go for about $800 but a Holters might give it a bit of a premium. I personally have never seen a Holters political so for me I personally would go $900-$1,000 is it was mint.

**JONATHAN** · 03-09-2007, 06:56 AM

Thanks for the very prompt reply ! He is chasing quite a bit more but my initial thoughts were certainly more in line with your thinking. Will let you know if I get anywhere with this one.

Jonathan

**solo** · 03-09-2007, 07:22 AM

Hi Jonatan,if you get ,post it ,we want to see because is a very interesting cap

Carlo

**Bob Coleman** · 03-09-2007, 09:41 AM

A typical Ortsgruppen visor cap is not a rare item. A nice clean one today should fetch $600-$700. The Holters tailor mark adds some value to the cap due to the association of this firm with notable personalities of the 3rd Reich. I agree with NTZ that there is a premium add but I believe he has nailed a good price range. Of ot becomes available, I would certainly be interested in it.
Bob

**stonemint** · 03-10-2007, 12:54 PM

I am somewhat skeptical of an Orts level visor w/ a Holters logo--Reichs- or Gau- I could understand, but Orts....

Be aware that the Holters logo is often faked--and not only by Janke. Furthermore, as a rule, these hats were not supposed to have a maker's logo--just the RZM tag with the Hersteller #. You will often find maker logos on Form 1-3, but rarely on Form 4 (Summer 1939-1945--the ones "mit mutzenkranz"), and I cannot recall a Form 4 off the top of my head with the logo at the Orts level--the ones I have seen were period upgrades from the Form 3 to bring them in line with the 1939 insignia (one way of determining a Form #3 upgrade to Form 4 is that the wreath is seperate from the cockade (but that, in and of itself, is not a guarantee of the same.

Anyway, be cautious--I would recco trying to get some pix first and posting them here first.

**Bob Coleman** · 03-10-2007, 01:01 PM

Caution is always something one should exercise these days when collecting 3rd Reich material. I agree with Stonemint that pictures would go a long way to dispell any reservations. In certain cases, the Ortsgruppenleiter would also be the Mayor of a town or city. Sucn a person would be one of position and some financial position in the community. In that case, it would not be unreasonable to find a Holters label in a visor cap. I would also concur it would likely be an upgraded earlier hat to conform with the 1939 insignia.

**JONATHAN** · 03-10-2007, 05:17 PM

The cap looks ok to me and comes from the vet's son, but I know little on this subject...I'm clueless as how to post pics here so will send the pics to Bob

Cheers
Jonathan

**REMUS** · 03-11-2007, 04:52 AM

Hi Jonathan,

I have an Orts in mint condition,and paid about $750 for it,so make sure you don't pay to much.

Important lesson;ALWAYS ask for some opinions here,if you like to buy something,a story about a vet bring back is never a guarantee in this hobby.There are some real nice guys here on the forum,where you can learn alot from,and always willing to help,if you show respect for the help.

Welcome here,you may send the pics to me too.

Jeremy

**JONATHAN** · 03-11-2007, 05:32 AM

Hi,
Thanks for all the kind responses, seems that the cap isn't good after all so i'll steer clear of this one !
Cheers
Jonathan

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