Mint Luftwaffe Flak Visor

[steiner99]

Hello to all,

for me is the 1000% a fake one. IMO it is very easy to see that the complete cap is a repro.

First point is: please have a look to the underside of the bill. Normally original caps have a much darker green! Fake LW caps have a much lighter green and the design is not corrugated, like originals, it has a kind of points!
No original flight caps have point! Allways a corrugated design!

The inside is in much used and worsed condition but the outsude is BRAND NEW??
The linig of the cloth (from the front view) is normally at original caps on the right side nearly in 45 degree and on the left side nearly 80 degree.
Most of the fake caps have on the right and left side 45 degree linings! Like this one! ...if cloth is made of garbadine! But thisone is garbadine!!

I would be very, very distrustfully when I see that the cloth of the inside is sewing up to the seam of the sweatband.

I would not pay 20EU for this cap!

Best,
steiner99

[NTZ]

If Gene and Dave think it is bad I would have to go the same. Gene knows his Luft caps. With the new photos there is one red flag for me. The lining and sweatband look artificially aged. The aging does not look like the typical patterns found on period caps. There is too much dirt and grime under the sweatband and on the lining under the sweatband. It just does not look natural. It appears that some form of black substance was used to age the cap.

[RUHL13]

As stated earlier by someone, the underside of the visor, not your typical checkered green, more like West German?
Regards,
Gary

[Dave Kane]

Thankyou Mike as the additional pictures affirmed my suspicions...it is a fake and should go back to the dealer.

Of particular note look at the 'foiling'....any bit of moisture and it will flake off.

[LuftMike]

I thank you all for your responses, You may have saved me quite a bit of money here, I am going to contact the collectors guild now and hopefully get a return on my investment. It's saddening, as I really did like this visor....but I'm not dropping that kind of money on a fake! Furthermore I was somewhat glad to notice that it was highly debatable, and I see that it was more than likely a mere vendor error.

[LuftMike]

I'd like to ask a question based on steiner99's evaluation of this visor cap, I'm not disputing, I'm simply asking questions in order to further my knowlege. This pertains to his comment about the underside of the visor. I realize that the common trait of luftwaffe visors is the corrugated underside, but do all period caps conform to that? I found this picture on warelics.com about their EM's Hermann Goering division visor cap, it has the EXACT same visor as the one in this thread. Is this cap on warelics original?

[TONY Q.W.]

Mike, I would very much doubt that this is an original Herman Goering cap.

[NTZ]

Mike, I would very much doubt that this is an original Herman Goering cap.

You could say the same for most of his caps.

[Gene]

I'd like to ask a question based on steiner99's evaluation of this visor cap, I'm not disputing, I'm simply asking questions in order to further my knowlege. This pertains to his comment about the underside of the visor. I realize that the common trait of luftwaffe visors is the corrugated underside, but do all period caps conform to that? I found this picture on warelics.com about their EM's Hermann Goering division visor cap, it has the EXACT same visor as the one in this thread. Is this cap on warelics original?

What a thoroughly craptacular hat

[stonemint]

Well, then, is this a repro or a fake? All postwar parts, or a Frankenstein?
Has anyone seen others of this style, and what branches?
I think we need to start a new thread on British Reproductions (if this is in fact where it came from.) What is the most distinguishing characteristic of these types of hats--the pebbled brim? I just want to classify it for reference purposes.

[Joe D]

What a thoroughly craptacular hat

Yes, this is one ugly visor. The dealer should have known better on this one.

[mjfur]

LuftMike,

Most Luftwaffe visors will have a green cross hatched pattern to the underside, but no Third Reich period cap will have the green pebbled pattern that you have pictured. If it's green & pebbled STAY AWAY!

Hope this helps,
Mike

[stonemint]

It looks like there is a consensus that the hat is postwar. However, I am still intrigued by the hat, in that there is much to be learned from it--Mike, did you run any of the "basic" tests? I am still curious if these are made as fakes, or are sold as repros--and what other hats has this maker (faker?) made, and do all of them have a pebbled underside?
If anyone runs across anymore of these, please post the pictures.

[LuftMike]

I didn't run the tests, but Peter at the Collector's Guild did. He found no glowing under blacklight, even up inside the padding. I don't have a blacklight as of yet, but I am currently in the process of getting one. It may even be possible that the cap was the victim of a damaged bill and was replaced postwar, although i doubt it seeing as there was no damage at the point of connection, unless the visor was really carefully re-attached. The whipchord weave in the material doesn't conform to the 45 and 80 degree pattern seen on luftwaffe visors. I think the cap was made as a fake to fool the collector. In any event, I am returning the cap and it will be further analysed by the Guild employees.
If in doubt, leave it out

[schirmmutze]

I´m worried....

Dear fellow collectors,

I´m a little worried after reading these posts....
Two well -known (well,that´s what I hear from many collectors..) dealers possibly selling fakes ?!?!?
They say they are the EXPERTS !!!
I hope this isn´t true......

Regards,

Theo