Opinions on the SS Arty. Visor on Estand

[NTZ]

Ben taking aside any arguments of these caps being produced post 1940 I still see problems. Unless the photos are giving a false impression the imprints in the lining that show where the soiling ends and the sweatband lays look to be well below the current sweatband. Not to mention in pic #10 you can see where those lines abruptly end. Then past that point there is no indicator where the sweatband sat. In fact the sweat, dirt and grime continue all the way to the cap base in the back. Then we can talk about how the lining sits. In the same photo you can see there is no pattern for the pleats. The lining appears to be too big for the cap. Again in the rear the lining looks too big and is pulled all the way to the base. I have seen this look many times before and it has always been on put together caps. You also mentioned your cap was late war with reprocessed wool. The quality of your wool is still substantially higher than the subject cap. Let us not forget it also has a pressed paper visor.

One last thing. Ben I am not sold that yours was produced post 1940. I see nothing that would indicate that. The wool looks pretty good to me.

[BenVK]

I agree entirely Tony. It doesn't automatically make Besslein's cap an original, not at all. I share the concerns about the side lining but I'm not ready to write the whole cap off just yet.

[TONY Q.W.]

I agree entirely Tony. It doesn't automatically make Besslein's cap an original, not at all. I share the concerns about the side lining but I'm not ready to write the whole cap off just yet.

Roger that

[BenVK]

One last thing. Ben I am not sold that yours was produced post 1940. I see nothing that would indicate that. The wool looks pretty good to me.

Morning Nick, well, as I understand it, light brown piping for KZ lager personel didn't come into effect until mid 1942. The wool IS horrible, you have to feel it to get the idea. You can actual see chunks of wood embedded in it.

[NTZ]

Morning Nick, well, as I understand it, light brown piping for KZ lager personel didn't come into effect until mid 1942. The wool IS horrible, you have to feel it to get the idea. You can actual see chunks of wood embedded in it.

I will take you word for it. Is it at all possible that your cap is recon and not KZ?

[NTZ]

One last comment on the subject cap since Tony brought it up. Your telling me that this lining sat in “this” cap for 60+ years and the sweatband did not press this bubble in the pleat down? IMO, no way in hell.

[BenVK]

Recon was more of a copper brown I believe Nick.

Guys, you're right of course, the lining isn't sitting flat and not folded where it should be. BUT, I'm sure you guys have seen a few caps like I have where the stitches holding it to the cap frame have come off and someone has tried to redo it without much success.

I don't mind standing alone on this one.
The side lining is the only negative I see at the moment. The cap has a good shape with a nice pinched crown, centre band doesn't look replaced or dyed. Sweatband doesn't look re-stitched. The chinstrap is the quite rare pressed paper type and not leather. (another later war feature?!) I'd love to see it in the flesh to be sure.

[NTZ]

I would think that if the lining was just repaired in the rear we would not see it pulled down to the base with a lot of excess still hanging. To me the lining looks to big for the cap it is in.

[BenVK]

I guess we'll never know for sure unless someone buys it!

[NTZ]

I guess we'll never know for sure unless someone buys it!

Go for it!

[BenVK]

Go for it!

Can you lend me the money?

[sturmbannfuhrer]

Simple explantion here. The cap was worn by Bart's arch nemesis Sideshow BOB. Now he did have a crazy hair do!!!

Sorry but I have yet to see a military visor SS, Heer or otherwise that was made in 1940 with a pressed paper visor. Civil caps yes but military not until much later in the war. Then I have a few more questions. Why are the sweat marks on the lining below the sweatband? Is this just the picture? Then we have the question of a type of wool, which is more commonly found much later in the war. Even on contract caps. This brings up my next question. The visor is a 1940 contract cap yet has an oilcloth lining. Not what I would expect to see in an SS visor in 1940. I am sorry when I purchase I buy the piece and not the story. The “Attic & barn” finds seem to work there way into all sales today. Am I saying your lying? NO. I am just saying I judge the cap first. If it is right as rain then the story is just gravy. I would like to hear more opinions. Mr. Coleman or Mr. Kane I think would make good starters. You must also understand that the rarity of a color piped SS is very high. All must be looked at with caution. Why the low price too? A color piped with out insignia and in this condition if original would fetch tremendously more in today’s market.