M43 luft trap vs. two piece insignia

[B. N. Singer]

...the one you show is the mountaincap as worn by Luft boys, men, girls and women. Jos.

Let me understand this, the Luft "mountain" cap seems to have been used on a somewhat "universal" basis (used by numerous types of "troops" other than actual mountain)? This being evidenced by wartime pictures. Is this same phenomena true with Heer mountain hats, i.e., that other than mountain personal are Commonly seen having been issued the hat?
B. N. Singer

[billbert]

Just to add to the luft cap issue..while the blue button is most often seen on hj flak caps..i have encountered it on lw bergmutze..lw sports kit cap..(which is more or less a lw bergmutze i believe) helferin caps..(no cockade) and saw a double blue button m43 luft..I think the cap button was a hair smaller..I m sure sometime hj caps were lufted by there owners BUT I ll bet a cap or 2 have had luft insignia added to post war stripped HJ caps.. a lot of blue unissued billed floatly around after the war found in the 50 s and 60 s...Billbert
PS to add to Bryons last comment..It does seem you see Bergmutze exampleson a lot of eastern volunteers fotos ..Maybe they re not all MT troops!!

[John Huff]

hj

[John Huff]

not the normally seen flak hat although not uncommon....

[John Huff]

3

[John Huff]

4

[John Huff]

last

[John Hodgin]

BUT I ll bet a cap or 2 have had luft insignia added to post war stripped HJ caps.. a lot of blue unissued billed floatly around after the war found in the 50 s and 60 s...Billbert

I totally agree Billbert.

Nice HJ cap Mr. Huff!

Unlike Heer Berg caps, these Luftwaffe mountain caps were worn by all branches. Unlike side caps, they were practical and warm. They were extremely popular among Fj.
Best,
John

[B. N. Singer]

...Unlike Heer Berg caps, these Luftwaffe mountain caps were worn by all branches. Unlike side caps, they were practical and warm. They were extremely popular among Fj.
Best,
John

So then John, it seems as though it is Only the "Technical Luft designation" by which these single button hats are to be consider "mountain" and not the actual issuing to mountain personal?

with regards,
Bryon

[Jos L C]

They were extremely popular among Fj.

Best,
John

....... and pilots...

Some of these guys are also wearing mountain shoes, because they were practical in the mud and snow and on slippery rocks..

Jos.


Jos.

[John Hodgin]

So then John, it seems as though it is Only the "Technical Luft designation" by which these single button hats are to be consider "mountain" and not the actual issuing to mountain personal?

with regards,
Bryon

So it would seem Bryon, though I have not read any Luftwaffe production or issue orders regarding their bergm******252;tzen, so I cannot say for sure.

This isn't hard to imagine, since these caps were based on a century old Alpine civilian design popular with skiers and climbers, they were very appropriate for Luftwaffe troops stationed in cold climates.
Regards,
John

[B. N. Singer]

Evening..,

I agree with John, Luftwaffe called the one with 1 button and grommet mountain caps....

Jos.

Excellent John, and this is why I was confused.

The Great example you posted in #29 is the hat that I have never thought to be "exclusively" produced for mountain personnel and I believe that I have also seen examples of this style also manufactured in 1943

Best,
Bryon

[John Hodgin]

I have never thought to be "exclusively" produced for mountain personnel and I believe that I have also seen examples of this style also manufactured in 1943

Best,
Bryon

IMHO they were produced though the begining of 43 and then ceased as production of the M43 replaced them. I believe they were referred to by troops, and in Luftwaffe Soldbuchs, as bergm******252;tzen. That is, they are "mountain caps" not caps exclusive to mountain troops.
Regards,
John

[djpool]

Thanks everyone for helping me figure out my hat.I didn't mean to hi-jack the thread. I always suspected the helferinnen wore some version of whats called the LW Bergmutze. Unfortunately most references call these hats a Bergmutze when a male is wearing it.When worn by a female its referred to as a single button M43 style hat.

I think I may also understand why the Helferinnen version is so difficult to find. add the cockade and you have a rare LW Berg instead of a ho-hum female hat.

Jos and Mr Huff thanks for posting your beautiful examples (which I used as comparisons below).

Again many thanks. You learn something everyday on the forum.

WR Jim

[John Hodgin]

Hello everyone,
I am going to be looking for a Luftwaffe M43 with two piece insignia(seperate eagle and cockade) soon. I own an M43 with a trapezoid insignia. Is there any steadfast rule as to who and when makers used the 2 piece insignia vs. the trapezoid? Is two piece insignia considered early for an M43, while the trap is later? Has anyone seen a later dated cap with the two piece insignia? And last.....I have seen hats with two piece insignia where the cockade was bevo and the eagle wool. I have also seen where both eagle and cockade are wool, any thoughts on this? Thanks in advance for your help

PG-

Hello Paul,

Were your questions clearly answered? As Mr. Huff stated, the trap is from later in the war, but two piece caps were produced late war also. So, two piece designs go from 43 through 45. Both Bevo and wool cockades were used. Bevo cockades were machine sewn. Wool cockades were usually hand sewn.

Here is a Bevo example souviner cut from a 43 cap. Can show you some more examples later if you wish, both uncut and cut.

Regards,
John