Luft Generals Visor Cap

[Lignemaginot]

Hi Clive

No the cap you sold me is perfect. In fact it is the only cap I have kept becuase it is such a nice piece.

Could you please give me the email for Gerard Stezelberger

Thanks for the feedback

Andre

Gerard's email is: gerard@relichunter.com

Try also Bill Shea at: billshea@tiac.net

Both of these dealers are well respected in the hobby, and no other seller should have a problem with the opinons of either of these gentlemen.

However, I would first verify with whoever sold you the hat that he is willing to accept either of these opinions as the be-all and end-all of the discussion (ie, if either of these gentleman pronounce the cap to be a fake, then the seller will take the cap back no questions asked). If the seller attempts to have you get the opinion of a dealer that no one has ever heard of, but with whom the seller is great friends, then you can start worrying.

Glad to hear that the Erel Privat is still in good hands.

Clive

[BenVK]

If this Muenchen maker retailed caps made by C Wagner, then such would be visible on the rhombus, too. That is, it would have "Erstklassig" or something similar or any of the other CW appelations as well as the 2dary retailer &c. At least such is my experience of especially Lw caps, say, Wagner ones retailed by the Verkaufsabteilung d. Lw.

Here's what I believe Donald is referring to:

[Lignemaginot]

Well, Ben's photo is of a Wagner specifically sold through the Verkaifsabteilung der Luftwaffe - Wagner caps were also sold through other distributors (in the same way that Erel caps were sold through individual stores through Germany).

However, my concern with this is that (as Mr Abenheim points out) if Schweyer (the name on the celluloid of this cap) was a distributor of Wagner caps, the Wagner logo would normally be found on the celluloid along with the name of Schweyer.

So, I would certainly get out the magnifying glass and look for signs that that sweatband has been re-applied; if you find any evidence whatsoever of tampering... you'll know that this is a Frankenstein cap.

[Donald Abenheim]

Wissen muss siegen!

Thanks to colleagues for their support via images. I hate to spread misery here, but I do have the sense that the C Wagner caps are faked in part and 100%. This sweat band on this piece does not look right to me, in fact, with the kind of Lubstein rip off. Someone surely has an example of a Stirdrueckfrei C Wagner of later make which is bomb proof. Lw caps for the Generalitaet are very rare indeed.

[Lignemaginot]

You very well could be correct, Mr Abenheim, although the leather itself looks alright, and I must say that out of all the big cap makers, I've seen more variations on Wagner's way of doing things than any of the others. Here's a photo of an original Wagner-embossed sweatband:

[AndreM]

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Thanks guys, very appreciative of the efforts and advice.

[AndreM]

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Following your comments I've looked at the sweatband very carefully under a spotlight and I connot find any evidence of tampering. See the pics

[AndreM]

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[AndreM]

3

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[AndreM]

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Also notice the wear at the back of cap

[Lignemaginot]

Andre,

Don't look at the cross-stitching - that would not need to be tampered with when moving it from one cap to another; look instead at the line of stitching that is above the cross-stitching but below the "pipe" (for lack of a better word - it's the tube in which the cane runs); it is almost hidden by the overhang of the pipe.

It is that line of stitching that would need to be removed and replaced, so try to bend up the pipe gently to get a good look at that stitching.

The wear on the rear of the cap is on the sweatband, not the cap. This can indicate that the sweatband is orignal, but we are trying to see if it is original to this cap.

Clive

[AndreM]

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Hi Clive

I cant see anything there. I think best is to send it to Bill Shea

[NTZ]

I agree with all that stated that if a Clemons Wagner was sold through another retailer it should still have the CW markings in the marker mark somewhere. All the CW’s that had other marking on them that I have seen also included a CW marking. Although not a Luft but a Heer, here is a visor I have with the retailers name but also the CW logo. The subject piece is interesting and one I would want to look at “hands-on” to be sure.