Info needed on Police visor cap

[German_military]

Hello,
Can someone help me with this Polizei visor cap?
Am I correct, that this is a reqular police visor cap ? What does the red Waffenfarbe mean on this cap?

Does such a cap have the same value as a regular infantry visor cap?

Thanks!

Frank

[German_military]

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[German_military]

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[German_military]

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[German_military]

Hello,
I hope someone can help me. Does the red mean Verkerspolizei? (traffic police) Or is this just a FeuerLösch Polizei cap? Why is it than green and not blue?


Thanks!

Frank

[Donald Abenheim]

Schau mal anderswo

On the GDC site there is a fellow who goes under the heading of ORPO or the like who is highly expert in German police items (and I am sure someone here is, too....) However, this figure is very knowledgable. German daggers dot com and its uniform branch, I mean. Viel Sammlerglueck. Angolia via Bender has just done a book on Polizei uniform, has he not?

[SCHUPO]

Donald,

Thank you for the vote of confidence. Orpo on GD is Schupo here... that is to say I am the same person.

Frank,

Your cap is the proper configuration for the early Feuerschutzpolizei. It has an officer chin strap and cockade but an enlisted eagle, which seems loose from the photograph. I hope this helps.

[Lucky Duck]

From here it looks like a feldgrau top, with pink piping and a black velvet band. Furthermore, it looks like the polizei eagle is oversized for the band, and there may have been a double pronged insignia where the cockarde now is.

In other words, I'm wondering what besides the insignia makes you believe this is a Polizei cap?

Could it....might it... dare I say it... be an SS Panzer officer with incorrect insignia?!?!?

Sincerely,
Ray

[W.Unland]

Dear Ray,

The early Feuerschutzpolizei wore a green topped cap with a black cap band. Later the band became dark brown like the other police services. Their uniforms likewise had black cuffs and collar, unlike the typical brown seen on later uniforms.

The eagle is too low, thats why SCHUPO believes it has been moved. It normally sits with the wings level with the top of the cap band. In fact from the side view you can see where the top of the eagle is bent out so that it can fit against the green cap cover were it were affixed at the top of the cap band where it belongs. The piping on this cap is not, in my opinion, "panzer" pink but the typical bright purplish-pink "carmine" of the fire services. Consequently, I must agree with SCHUPO that this is a fairly rare fire service cap, but not SS. That said, I am sure that more than a few of these have been passed off as SS in the past.

I have seen police caps where the GI souvenier hunter has pinned an eagle or the police eagle where the cockade goes because all other TR caps have an eagle there, and they want a NAZI hat. It is NOT uncommon to find police schirmmutzen with pin holes up where there should be none.

Just my 2cents worth.

Regards,
Bill Unland

[German_military]

Hello,
What a great information. I expect the cap tomorrow. I'll check if there has anything been replaced. I'll let you know. I'll also make some new photo's.

Could an officer's cap have an EM eagle? (when he was promoted for example) I know, that officer's tunics sometimes have EM/NCO eagles.

What's the difference between a EM police eagle and a officers eagle?
I thought, that there was only a difference with cloth eagles.


Thanks!

Frank

[W.Unland]

Hello,

To answer your question, an enlisted grade cap, with enlisted eagle could have silver officer's chin cords. The police rank of MEISTER, or senior NCO was an enlisted man but was entitled to wear officer's cords on his schirmmutze.

An officer's eagle is much more detailed and has added depth and height.
Often they are two piece. I have attached a scan to show the difference. Officer's on the left, EM on the right. Even though a bad scan you can see how the eagle on the officer's insignia "sticks out" from the wreath much more than on the EM insignia. The eagle is an attached 2nd piece on this example, but one piece officer's eagles exist too.

Best regards,
Bill Unland

[W.Unland]

Here is another photo to show where the eagle should be affixed.

I think your cap probably had the insignia moved by someone not experience with police caps. I have seen them with the police eagle on the top and an army wreath and cocade mounted below so that the cap would look like other NAZI caps.

If you look closely you can see pin holes on either side of my caps cocade as well. It seems the insignia were reversed at some time in it's post war life. Again, in the past, inexperienced collectors thought that the "eagle always goes on top", and changed these things around, so such happening on your cap does not make it suspect in any manner.

Your cap looks fine to me, just wandering insignia If you ever want to part with it I would be happy to entertain purchasing it.

Regards,
Bill Unland

[German_military]

Hello,
Thanks a lot for the detailed photo's and information! I'll let you know, as soon as I know more about the insignia.

Greetings,
Frank!

[German_military]

Hello,
I received the cap today. The police eagle (and cocade) have indeed been replaced. The condition of the eagle was bad ,so I removed him.( The alluminium had some corrosion.)

The cap is in almost mint condition. I can see that a Totenkopf and an eagle have been attached. I may assume,that that happend post-war?


What do you think, when you these these 2 new photo's? Just say, if I need to make other photo's as well.

I now need a new police eagle. Can someone show me exacly wich one I need? What model do I need, to match the cap? (would the officer eagle, on the photo above be correct)

(MAIL ME , IF YOU HAVE AN POLICE OFICER EAGLE FOR SALE)

Thanks!

Frank

[German_military]

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