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Hans Brandt tropical sidecap on the estand ?

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    #31
    Good report 90th
    O


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Comment

      #32
      Originally posted by pauke View Post
      Other than the pink soutache being too narrow for my taste the entire stitching inset around the lower edge of the cap looks to be a distinctly different color thread from what's holding the rest of the cap together. Seeing that I had no further need to look at it.
      Yes this is what Mr Singer and i alluded to. Thanks for the added details

      Comment

        #33
        Originally posted by madandi View Post
        I also got anthoer Brandt 11/42, bougth here on estand dekads before. There are also 2 different type of threads around the cap
        Hi Andi

        Thanks for the added photos and for being good sport about this.

        I was wrong about the soutache being thin, from the added photos.

        The 1142 has also had it's soutache added post postwar.

        Have also seen Clemens Wagner sidecaps from the beehive cache dated Nov/Dec '42 with this same feature.

        Comment

          #34
          Originally posted by 90th Light View Post
          Example Number 1: Hans Brandt tropical sidecap

          with factory applied soutache dated August 1942

          Note the neat unaltered line of stitching around the circumference

          This is the original feature when handling one of these to look for and how this maker made their tropical side-caps before May 1945,

          Chris
          Thanks Chris for the excellent demonstration

          Have seen an 842 with what at the time i described a sloppy soutache application when compared to this example.

          Think maybe the rbn# threadstarter is from Jan '43 cause it does not have the 343 only the 43 ?

          There are a few more HB's in this thread "Can anyone post DAK field caps"

          http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=173621

          with appreciation

          Tim

          Comment

            #35
            Originally posted by B. N. Singer View Post
            Greetings Sir!

            Although accurate, this is unfortunately not an absolute litmus test. I have encountered the rare example where the nefarious individual understands this and has re-stitched the entire hat’s base circumference after the addition of the soutache material.

            Best,
            B. N.
            Thanks for adding this further information as to the evolution of the faker's added soutache methods. i believe this was the third generation from the fakers. The second using the threadstarter as a example. The earliest examples have the two loops that attach the false front above the cockade have been removed, and in most cases replaced. So the fakers improved their application as time went on as they had plenty of caps to soup-up with a soutache.

            with kind regards

            Tim

            Comment

              #36
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Lenny
              Appreciate the additional pictures Andy. The cap would have left the factory with one continuous stitching line around the base of the cap with the same color and gauge thread.

              Originally posted by jacquesf View Post
              Thanx Lenny, now I have learned something. J
              Thanks for bringing this up from our prior discussion. Again the Mod's are doing a great job currently.

              This information has been around for about 25 years.
              Everyone dust off your copy of Jose's booklet, Tropical Headgear of the German Wehrmacht in WWII vol 2.
              Page 45-48 has a rbn# HB cap with an added "thin" soutache which is purple in color. Can't tell from the B/W photos but can clearly see the two different stitch lines at the base of the cap. Then on page #49-52 is the classic original 842 without a soutache and the single stitchline at the base.

              Have noticed a few HB caps that had a soutache added postwar have had it removed recently. While i can see someone removing a soutache from a cap dated '43. (not recommended) Would be careful about removing a soutache from an 842 as it may be original.

              This is also the first time that the rbn# 0/0265/5044 cap has been widely excepted as a Han's Brand made cap.
              Does anyone know what the additional numbers mean, 2590 over the 0026 above the date '43 and rbn# ?

              thanks

              Tim
              Last edited by Tim O'Keefe; 03-22-2020, 06:11 PM.

              Comment

                #37
                Originally posted by kammo man View Post
                Good report 90th
                O
                Are world's colliding ? kammo man and 90th together on something

                Oh sh*t* they are cause of the virus. This is the first day off since i last posted. Was supposed to be on vacation this week. Had it all lined up, St Paddy's, Champions League, FA Cup 1/4 Finals etc. But was called into work as part of the FRD.


                Thanks to all that posted and this thread reminds me of the good ol' days of the WAF.
                Everyone stay safe and take good care

                Tim
                Last edited by Tim O'Keefe; 03-22-2020, 06:16 PM.

                Comment

                  #38
                  The cap has been pulled off the estand. The straight HB sidecaps still without a soutache have sold for about $400us for many years now. Have seen the caps with an added soutache post Aug '42. sell for less in some cases where the seller acknowledged the soutache was added post war. & can still see caps with the postwar added soutache offered on dealer sites for double or more $ as original. There is still more to learn and tell from the beehive cache. Someday will name names

                  Would again like to thank everyone that posted, especially 90th Light

                  Comment

                    #39
                    Originally posted by Tim O'Keefe View Post
                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Lenny
                    Appreciate the additional pictures Andy. The cap would have left the factory with one continuous stitching line around the base of the cap with the same color and gauge thread.



                    Thanks for bringing this up from our prior discussion. Again the Mod's are doing a great job currently.

                    This information has been around for about 25 years.
                    Everyone dust off your copy of Jose's booklet, Tropical Headgear of the German Wehrmacht in WWII vol 2.
                    Page 45-48 has a rbn# HB cap with an added "thin" soutache which is purple in color. Can't tell from the B/W photos but can clearly see the two different stitch lines at the base of the cap. Then on page #49-52 is the classic original 842 without a soutache and the single stitchline at the base.

                    Have noticed a few HB caps that had a soutache added postwar have had it removed recently. While i can see someone removing a soutache from a cap dated '43. (not recommended) Would be careful about removing a soutache from an 842 as it may be original.

                    This is also the first time that the rbn# 0/0265/5044 cap has been widely excepted as a Han's Brand made cap.
                    Does anyone know what the additional numbers mean, 2590 over the 0026 above the date '43 and rbn# ?

                    thanks

                    Tim
                    Thanks Tim
                    Give a man an opinion and you feed him for a day,
                    teach a man to use the "search" function on the WAF and you feed him for a lifetime.

                    Comment

                      #40
                      Just a question, my english is not very good, so i´m not sure if i understand everything correct.
                      I have took a look at the fotos of 90th. I can see that earlier caps have only one row of stiching around the lower cap. Nr. 3 and 4 have two rows. both in different colors.
                      So the double row with different color is not a sign of an added soutache, it´s a sign of later factory made?

                      Comment

                        #41
                        Originally posted by madandi View Post
                        Just a question, my english is not very good, so i´m not sure if i understand everything correct.
                        I have took a look at the fotos of 90th. I can see that earlier caps have only one row of stiching around the lower cap. Nr. 3 and 4 have two rows. both in different colors.
                        So the double row with different color is not a sign of an added soutache, it´s a sign of later factory made?
                        Hello madandi,

                        on all 4 of my original caps, both "842" and "RB numbered" there is always only one neat row of stitching through the red liner very close to the folded edge of the liner.

                        On your cap, there are two rows of stitching to the edge of the liner. One row of stitching is the original in a darker olive green colour and the other row of stitching is post-war added (when they put the soutache on post-war) in a lighter khaki coloured thread.

                        I have added some images from this thread to this post, to show what I mean. Your cap is the last image,

                        Chris
                        Attached Files

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                          #42
                          aaah! Got it, Thanks.

                          Comment

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