Hans Brandt tropical sidecap on the estand ?

[Tim O'Keefe]

Here is a Hans Brandt from 1943 with a rbn# and a rosa soutache ?
The cap itself appears to be from the beehive cache.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru....php?t=1037262

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[Tim O'Keefe]

Here is another Hans Brandt this time an 842, on Joe's site. Have seen this cap before. Cap has copper brown recon piping around the scallop false front ? This hat is pictured in one of Angolias books ? Another beehive cap from the looks of it.

https://www.joesmilitary.com/shop.ph...=2#prettyPhoto[52761]/0/

Would like to hear everyone's thoughts on these Hans Brandt caps ?

[Tim O'Keefe]

Almost 100 looks and no comments on either cap ?

Have been talking to Andi about his rbn# HB cap.

Is it possible that some Hans Brandt caps from 1943 were issued with a soutache ?
Why not the others ? or the 1142's etc

& what about the recon piping sewn to the false front of the HB 842 ?

thanks

Tim

[B. N. Singer]

Greetings Sir,

I would suggest that the soutache on the RBNed ‘Brandt’ from 1943 has been post war replaced (as it does not look like ‘period' material) and that a careful inspection of the hat’s base stitching would confirm this.

The ‘recon’ example I will not theorize on suffice it to say that I would choose not to own it.

Respectfully,
B. N.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Greetings Sir,

I would suggest that the soutache on the RBNed ‘Brandt’ from 1943 has been post war replaced (as it does not look like ‘period' material) and that a careful inspection of the hat’s base stitching would confirm this.

The ‘recon’ example I will not theorize on suffice it to say that I would choose not to own it.

Respectfully,
B. N.

And a cordial greeting to you sir.

Thank you for your assessment

This soutache looks to me like the "thin shiny" material. Often used by the fakers but sometimes found on originals.

We all know the order of the soutache removal in July 1942. And that often it still continued to be worn on already issued caps after that. However caps with a factory sewn soutache would not continue to be produced much after July /Aug'42. There are many HB side caps without a soutache dated 842 (Aug '42) and later. Why would HB continue to produce caps from the same factory with and without the soutache in late '42-early '43 ?

Here is a little more info. Several hundred of these late '42, early '43 HB & CW side caps from the beehive cache without soutache were bought up years ago by an enterprising individual that then had a soutache added. In most cases it was very well done.

Would take Mr Singer's advice and look carefully at the stitch line around the circumference of the base of the cap. There is where the answer lies...

As to the 842 with recon piping added pretty sure everyone reading this already knows whats going on there...

Also special thanks to Lenny for adding the extra photos to the thread.
Would add that i have noticed an improvement in the WAF since the new management team was put in place.

with appreciation

Tim

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[90th Light]

This soutache looks to me like the "thin shiny" material. Often used by the fakers but sometimes found on originals.

Tim

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An original tropical M40 with an original shiny soutache can be seen here;

https://virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=5475

Chris

[Tim O'Keefe]

An original tropical M40 with an original shiny soutache can be seen here;

https://virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=5475

Chris

Thanks Chris, yes that's the one

The fakers also use a similar "shiny" material except the width is about 2mm not 3mm.

[pauke]

Other than the pink soutache being too narrow for my taste the entire stitching inset around the lower edge of the cap looks to be a distinctly different color thread from what's holding the rest of the cap together. Seeing that I had no further need to look at it.

[madandi]

ok. So we we have an opinion that it is not original Material.
I have took a look and compered it to other original and fake material. I have seen some different Soutache in size. Every good Soutache has inside Material, threads, that were woven around with the branch color. Same here. Same as other Pz-Soutache with inside white Material, same as other colors with differnet colors of the inside material. I will show you some fotos. The condition of the Different soutache varys always a little bit.

[Lenny W]

Thanks for the additional pictures Andy how about a close up of this area the thread seam to change colors on both sides of the cap in these areas ?

[B. N. Singer]

ok. So we we have an opinion that it is not original Material. I have took a look and compered...

Are these three pictures of the soutache on the 'suspect Brandt' example?

B. N. Singer

[madandi]

here some comparements

[madandi]

Are these three pictures of the soutache on the 'suspect Brandt' example?

B. N. Singer

Yes.

[madandi]

Thanks for the additional pictures Andy how about a close up of this area the thread seam to change colors on both sides of the cap in these areas ?

Here are the fotos. There is clear a second thread wtih different color around the cap.

[madandi]

I also got anthoer Brandt 11/42, bougth here on estand dekads before. There are also 2 different type of threads around the cap