S.S. buckle for review 822/38

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

So where does this leave the buckle i posted that started this thread? is it good or bad

You have a chance to learn something rather than be assisted, you should take it. Your answer will came when I have finish. Thank you.

[ENGLISH BOB]

You have a chance to learn something rather than be assisted, you should take it. Your answer will came when I have finish. Thank you.

Sorry JP,I'd like to learn
Thank you
Bob

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

6-Parting lines are not just on fakes. They are also on originals. Remember aluminum stamping is made by two dies producing a lot of heat.

7-Circle surrounding markings is more obviously visible on aluminum SS officers produced before 1939. But should not be the factor to approve or reject a buckle.
Here are a set of original 36/39's. Note differences also in crimps (heat effect)

Picture by Marc Verstraete.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

8-A question that NOBODY asked: if both buckles were obviously made in two parts!

This would have directly brought us to number 9

9-Time frame of the fake production: if any of the two buckles had bubbles by casting process, this would be either:
a-A fully cast one piece buckle. But by that period fakers were not able to do so and both buckles are two pieces construction.
b-Older cast two piece? Fakers at that time were not able to reproduce proper crimps

If any of the two buckles were die stamped? The front will be totally different and there will be almost no bubble. Obviously crimps will also have to be much different.

As for the current closest match of an existing SS officer I personally know is that one produced in 2011

Pictures by Christian U. (Germany)

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Do you believe there is a similarity with any of the two ?

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

So, I will now finish with the buckle posted by ENGLISH BOB. There is at least one thing which tells you this is a genuine buckle and not a reproduction. What is?

[schorschi]

Dear J.P

Tank You

Best wishes
Schorschi

Merci pour cette leçon.
Avec mes meilleurs vœux

Schorschi

[KC1]

Thanks JP for the refresher course. Not speaking for others, but I often times fail to take those extra steps you have outlined in determining authenticity, especially when it becomes somewhat borderline and not obvious.

I oftentimes make a collage to when I have questions to better ascertain a decision and often times make collages for my own curiosity sake. Typically this takes a little time but the results are typically favorable.

I did perform the collage on the buckles you asked about

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

To type what I typed this morning took me around 4 hours. And I took extra care to do not reveal/explain several other things in an attempt to to do not help further fakers (a friendly reminder from Ric, your Moderator). But this was needed IMO since more and more wrong evaluations are given to people. Dealers are not care since once in a while loss is part of their business but true collector should be educated - not assisted.

[Ric Ferrari]

From a discussion on a buckle almost closed, in spite of a general consensus not correct, JP did take the chance to offer a very interesting lesson (not a simply refresh) to anyone truly interested in SS buckles.

Thank you Jean, for your time

Ric

[SScollector]

I too, would like thank JP. His time and efforts spent to help us are much appreciated, not just by me, but by many collectors here of which it has helped a lot. Thank you!

Chris

[klr]

JP. Thanks for the time you spent on this useful information. I’m not planning on adding any SS officers except maybe a zinc one. You never know when one will pop up.

Kirby


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[GREG E.]

My Guess...

Is it the age of the damage on the obverse of the buckle? The heavy scrape at upper-right surely removed a layer of finish from the surface of the buckle, yet a genuine age patina covers the damaged areas, blending, and thus creating the appearance of an overall very uniform color across the entire face of the buckle...

So, I will now finish with the buckle posted by ENGLISH BOB. There is at least one thing which tells you this is a genuine buckle and not a reproduction. What is?

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

No, even if this observation is right since the buckle shows its age.

[ivanjoaquin]

Thanks Master for your time and your teaching

I think that this is the detail: