S.S. buckle for review 822/38

[SScollector]

One thing that I just noticed on both of these buckles, is that the middle talon on the right foot of the eagle appears too short from what I remember seeing on known originals.
Looking forward to hearing what JP has to say though.

Chris

[SScollector]

Here is an original example, imo, for comparison.

Chris

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

I am reading. How is the back of your?

[SScollector]

Mine has no gap between the two crimps and also has that strong heat mark on the left crimp. I will have to look closer to compare markings.

Chris

[SScollector]

Here is a shot of mine, (I'm sure that you remember that I bought this one from your collection many years ago):

Chris

[dirtyharry]

What i see is a clear diff in the rzm stamp. Shouldnt the M be more like what i draw in blue?

[John T]

---->regarding the officer buckles posted by JP, the first is original, the second a fake (I refer to the reverse pix).

[John T]

And the first EM posted is original, probably ground dug and hence the pits and scrapes, regards, JJT

[ENGLISH BOB]

And the first EM posted is original, probably ground dug and hence the pits and scrapes, regards, JJT

OK John,thanks for that

Cheers
Bob

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

BOTH officer buckles ARE original. NONE is a cast fake.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

So, since so many provided erroneous answers, I believe it is time to refresh our memories. I will try my best to bring back some basics.

Also I will kindly ask any of you to not be offended by the way I will express myself or commenting some of the answers the way I will do it. It is the way I am explaining things in another language than my own and the main thing for me is that most of readers could learn something. Most likely this is going the very last extensive teaching I will ever do. So please read carefully and try to do not make further mistakes since one day you could have to pay for it...

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Ok, let's start:

1-Pictures of the first buckle were made with a camera in 2008 with no optical zoom. Pictures of the second buckle were made in 2019 with a camera having at least twice the resolution and a 20X optical zoom.
Judging by the overall is wrong! To do a decent job you need to look at details, not at the overall. Fakers are using the overall to sell their crap!

2-Comparing just two buckles when only one detail is slightly different or even totally different is extremely wrong. Buckles were produced in large quantities and their makers were not even taking care of the production 100% of the time. Buckles makers were not producing Cartier's jewelry or Ferrari's cars!

This buckle was out of the Overhoff factory in 1938 and sold...

[Bob Curuthers]

No casting marks........... correct colour..........................This and a few other things leads me to believe this one is ok.

[ENGLISH BOB]

So where does this leave the buckle i posted that started this thread? is it good or bad

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

3-Color? Same as 2. Yes, it should be an indicator to push further the investigation but should never be the factor to discard or approve a buckle. All aluminum SS buckles were sprayed/painted after been stamped. ALL. So, first paint batch (they were not all painted with the same paint bucket) can be slightly different, then wear will also have an effect then long term storage will also have an effect.
Who noticed, on second buckle, that the front was bright silver when the back was more dull, almost grey? This was due to storage in a very humid environment with the buckle resting on its brocade belt for many years. The back paint reacted adversely when the front had the chance to dry faster.

4-Bubbles? Original buckles were die stamped producing high heat during the process. Imagine stamping hot wax then lifting the stamping die when the wax is not fully cold. What will you find on the surface? And even if you let the wax to cool, aren't you going to find bubbles? Fake have (or should I say "had") bubbles in the very early years of production but they also came with a lot of crevices/pits and many other oddities. Not just bubbles. On the opposite, aluminum die stamped SS buckles always have somewhere some bubbles. I believe the longest the maker used the dies the more bubbles the buckle should have.
It is true that other factors could create bubbles or what we think are bubbles: paint reaction with elements (same as 3), dust present before spraying paint, etc... We also have to keep in mind that, if most imperfections can be seen on a picture using high quality optics, those are barely noticeable using only human eyes. Bubbles on fakes are noticeable by both human eyes and poor quality optics.

5-Heat developed by the stamping process could also alter some minor details but not all. So, once again, a call needs to be done on several factors, not just one.