RZM 822/38 SS belt buckle

[SonicS]

Sure...that's possible, if you consider the buckle an original one actually dug out…….but few details lead me to believe it's not a period piece.

Ric

Ric in places that you indicated there is nothing strange.

[Ric Ferrari]

Ric in places that you indicated there is nothing strange.

S.

I guess buckle collectors understand very well what I mean by highlighting that area.

For anyone else not specialized, 822/38 original design shows rope behind eagle neck and that's still visible on this buckle by a reverse view.

But if you look at eagle neck by a front view, the rope is not visible because of design modification.

Ric

[Ric Ferrari]

Sure...that's possible, if you consider the buckle an original one actually dug out…….but few details lead me to believe it's not a period piece.

Ric

About this matter I still have to show what I'm referring to……..later I will do, but for now let's stay on the subject : what happened to Sieper's eagle ?

Ric

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Sorry for my late answer but yesterday I was thick and slept almost all day...

From the start it was obvious to me the back of the buckle does not match at all its front. With today pictures nobody can have a doubt.
Look at the third picture (same as Ric used to draw arrows) then to post number 9. It is obvious eagle's chest feathers are not the same: Pay attention to the last row before the neck (on the back) and stopping as a regular Sieper buckle at the neck and the last row on the front which ends to the head's back. Front design and back design is absolutely not the same same which is in turn not the proper way buckles were made. So, no this is not a newer variant but just a regular 822/38 which has been altered.
When was it done? It will be impossible to know. I do not believe it was done post war since looks like a lot of work for just a few dollars. I would tend to believe the previous owner (the SS) had nothing to do in camp and decided to give another life to his worn buckle. Do you remember WWI trench artwork? How exquisite it was?

[Mac 66]

Sorry for my late answer but yesterday I was thick and slept almost all day...

. So, no this is not a newer variant but just a regular 822/38 which has been altered.
When was it done? It will be impossible to know. I do not believe it was done post war since looks like a lot of work for just a few dollars. I would tend to believe the previous owner (the SS) had nothing to do in camp and decided to give another life to his worn buckle. Do you remember WWI trench artwork? How exquisite it was?

JP,

This was my thoughts also, origional owner enhanced all the worn details on his buckle .




Regards Mac 66

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

but few details lead me to believe it's not a period piece.

Ric

And this could be perfectly true as well. But, if true, collectors must worry way more than before since other details provided by SonicS pictures are showing details which were not accurate on previous fake Sieper's - but those are now accurate.
Ric has also a point we should not forget: the rope behind eagle's head. As he pointed out, looking at the buckle's back, it is obvious that rope was there but is totally absent on the front. So, in case of a re-worked front, there should be remains of it at least.

[Ric Ferrari]

…….few details lead me to believe it's not a period piece.

Ric

…….but more likely a repro by casting.

What are these, to begin with ? (by #4-bottom)

Ric

[Mac 66]

…….but more likely a repro by casting.

What are these, to begin with ? (by #4-bottom)

Ric

Ric,

Could be corrosion nodules maybe because the buckle is aluminium ?



Regards Mac 66

[Ric Ferrari]

Ric,

Could be corrosion nodules maybe because the buckle is aluminium ?



Regards Mac 66

Mac,

to my knowledge, but I'm always ready to learn something new, corrosion does not add material but just a surface oxidation.

On the other end lost wax casting process may leave these perls on surface.

Ric

[Mac 66]

Mac,

to my knowledge, but I'm always ready to learn something new, corrosion does not add material but just a surface oxidation.

On the other end lost wax casting process may leave these perls on surface.

Ric

Would be better if Sonic added better pix of these nodules to study further
Mac 66

[SonicS]

This is corrosion, oxides of aluminum, which was all over the buckle, before it was washed.

[Ric Ferrari]

Alu cancer usually eats material…….

May you post more close-ups taken by sun light or with camera flash ?

Of course I'm referring to highlighted perls (bottom picture #4).

Thanks

Ric

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Let's not be too paranoid by any pearl which could remain to the buckle surface. Look at my mint officer 36/39 with mint brocade posted earlier and you can easily see there is many pearls on its surface. Let's not forget aluminum buckles were indeed stamped, but stamped under high heat. Their stamping process was able to heat enough the metal plate to even melt/attach their catch in place. So it is logical to expect some imperfections.
Also, in case of full casting, I do not believe they will dare to recreate a full front design just to kill their new production. Just leaving the older 2004 production unchanged with just correcting few details would have been plenty since this buckle displays correct details.

[KC1]

I am in agreement with Ric & JP - this looks to be a deceitful project performed by someone. For me it's a one looker - no way Jose!!!!

[Texasuberalles]

It's like having some areas respray-painted on your car and calling it 'an all original paint car'; it's deceitful.