help

[Ken S]

I have a mint heer buckle stamped B&N-43 is this a good maker mark?
I only have a scanner so cant post photos
thanks for your time
ken s

[David North]

Ken

Can you scan the images of this buckle and then, attach them to a private e-mail ? I am sure that various members of the Forum will help you out in connection with this Berge und Nolte buckle.

Regards,

David

[Ken S]

scanns

front

[Ken S]

back

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[Ken S]

B&N-43

guys, I really dont know buckles, but this made very well, (strong)
ken s

[Chad Williams]

the prongs look awfull!!!!! bad reverse cut...I am going to say NO GOOD

I hate to be the bearer of bad news ..hopefully someone else will chime in...Chad

[Ken S]

thanks chad

Damn not what I wanted to hear, but thinks any way, anyone have a green painted or mid war heer buckle for sale or trade?
ken s

[GLM]

the prongs look awfull!!!!! bad reverse cut...I am going to say NO GOOD

I hate to be the bearer of bad news ..hopefully someone else will chime in...Chad

While we all like to see the rounded prong tips on steel buckles, I'm going to reserve judgement on these reverse cut prongs. Until someone proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that buckle prongs weren't made this way, I'd say there is pretty good, if not positive proof that there are original buckles with these prongs.

Because of the photos provided on Ken's buckle, it would be hard to say with certainty if his B&N-43 is good or bad. We all know there are B&N-43 fakes floating around out there, so I won't bother showing several I've had for a good many years. What I can say with certainty is that I have a vet acquired tabbed, marked and stamped B&N-41 Heer buckle and a Maedicke, Berlin 1940 tabbed and dated buckle and they both have the reverse cut prongs like what is observed on Ken's buckle. With certainty, Berge & Nolte made them this way! I also have the buckle my father sent home as a souvenir in 1944. It's stamped N&H, L and also has very slight reverse cut prongs.

I personally think Nash opened a can of worms on this subject that is going to be hard to close.

Regards,
Gary

B&N-41 Heer Buckle

[GLM]

Maedicke 1940 Buckle

[GLM]

And the nasty reverse cut on the Noelle & Hueck buckle my dad sent home. Maybe not all maker's did this, but there is positive proof some did.

Gary

N & H

[David North]

Gary

I have said it before and I will say it again - I am absolutely convinced that we on the Forum, still do not have the definition of "reverse cut claws" agreed and hence, the confusion.

Attached is an image of a fake DAF-Werkschar which displays what I regard as the infamous reverse cut claws.

In my opinion, any other claw cut or tip is potentially acceptable.

Regards,

David

[paul a]

david can you have a look at the ss buckle thread and give me your opinion of the prongs on it thanks

[GLM]

Gary

I have said it before and I will say it again - I am absolutely convinced that we on the Forum, still do not have the definition of "reverse cut claws" agreed and hence, the confusion.

Attached is an image of a fake DAF-Werkschar which displays what I regard as the infamous reverse cut claws.

In my opinion, any other claw cut or tip is potentially acceptable.

Regards,

David

David

I agree with you completely in regard to the prongs on the DAF you posted...100% fake. The can of worms I was referring to is Nash's reference to the prongs guillotined in opposite directions he shows on the notorious fake OLT buckle in his book on page 303. While this may be the case on the OLT buckle, I think a lot of collector's assume any buckle found with this type of prong cut automatically makes that buckle fake? I simply disagree! While this type of prong cut is not often encountered on steel buckles, I do have known original buckles with the same cut. My vet acquired B&N-41 Heer and N&H,L Heer my dad brought home is proof enough for me.

I noticed the SS buckle in question also has this type of prongs. While I see nothing wrong with the prongs on that buckle, I am certainly anticipating Jean Pierre's word. Post-war replacement is such a nasty word, I certainly hope there is evidence out there that war-time repairs or replacements also took place with this type of prong sleeve?

Regards,

Gary

[David North]

Gary

I know that I am performing a mantra here, however and based on experience, the only definitely fake claw tip arrangement that I know, is the one clearly illustrated on the DAF-Werkschar buckle.

All other permutations are possible.

I have numerous SA, NSBO and other buckles with claw tips similar to the ones that you are concerned with.

The only caveat that I would apply is just be extra careful and vigilant if confronted with raw, new or sharp edges.

Regards,

David

[Marc verstraete]

This subject has been discussed many times before on this forum. The "reverse cut" definition is subject to interpretation. Reverse cut prongs do exist on real buckles but they are radically different than the fakes. One just has to see the difference ones to know this and recognise them forever. The "real" reverse cuts are generally short and smooth; even when the buckle is in unused and mint condition. Fakes are cut longer and VERY sharp. They not comparable.

Also, the "real" reverse cuts are not often encountered, it is not because someone has by coincidence a few in his collection of buckles coming from a vet that they are common. I have over 4000 buckles and only a handful of these "original" "reverse cuts".

To response to the original question of this post, the pictures / scans of the buckle in question are not good enough to make any decision.

Marc