Hey, can you guys I.D. these?
Left is brass with EENDRACT MAAKT MAGT
Right is a rampant horse & GOTT MIT UNS
Thanks
Left is brass with EENDRACT MAAKT MAGT
Right is a rampant horse & GOTT MIT UNS
Thanks
-
-
Hi,
I can only say anything about the buckle on the right of your picture. The buckle is post-war, but very interesting none the less. The emblem is for Westphalia, a Prussian province until 1945, when the occupying powers decreed that Prussia would cease to exist. The north of Germany was occupied by the British. Like the other occupying powers, they soon realised they needed indigenous help in policing their zone and licensed German police forces. Unlike the other occupying powers, they allowed belt buckles showing the regional arms. One finds converted Wehrmacht buckles with a blank centre, with the provincial arms of several formerly Prussian provinces, and even one with the arms of North-Rhine-Westphalia, a modern federal German state created out of some of the remnants of the western German provinces of Prussia. This last, always found with a roundel superimposed on Wehrmacht, police or other buckles, I find particulary interesting. Your Westphalian police buckle was probably (and I am guessing here) made of an existing aluminium buckle blank to which the roundel was attached by four short tabs. A very nice buckle to have, but not TR or 'nazi'.
Regards,
Karl -
Hello,
The brass buckle is from South Africa from the turn of the last century, I believe. The motto means "Unity is Strength" in Afrikaans. It is a German-made buckle. I hope others may fill in the blanks here because I have one as well.
Regards,
KevinComment
-
Thanks Guys!!!!
Karl, regarding the Westphalia buckle. It seems you know this solid but someone else emailed me that it was WWII Lower Saxony Police? Is there a reference on this one??
AndrewComment
-
Andrew,
The arms are definitely those of Westphalia, not of Lower Saxony (after 1945 formed from the Prussian province of Hannover, from which it took the horse emblem and several other formerly independent states such as Oldenburg and Lippe). Both Westphalia and Lower Saxony/Hannover have a horse emblem, but there are subtle differences. For comparison, attached is a post-war Feuerwehr buckle for Niedersachsen showing their version of the horse.
In the early refernce books these are even sometimes described as Reichswehr territorial army and the "identification" as Weimar era or WW2 police is still flitting around. Unfortunately, this is just wishful thinking. There was only one type of Reichswehr buckle, showing the Weimar eagle. Weimar police forces came under control of the Länder (i.e. states, like Prussia, Bavaria, Saxony etc.). Prussian police in the Weimar era first had a box buckle, and later a round buckle for all ranks showing the Prussian eagle. The individual provinces of Prussia (administrative sub-units, like Westphalen, Ostpreussen, Schlesien etc.) did not have their own forces. No policeman serving in the Prussian province of Westphalia could have worn any insignia sporting the provincial arms. In 1936, the Nazis centralised the police at Reich level. All Third Reich police forces wore the standard police buckle with the swastika. Sorry, but it's still a interesting buckle, but definitely of the period post TR 1945 -?
Regards,
KarlLast edited by Kurt Doench; 03-05-2005, 01:21 PM.Comment
-
Andrew,
For further comparison, attached is a post-WW2 police buckle for Brunswick. Brunswick was historically ruled by a branch of the Guelphs, another branch of which ruled the Kingdom of Hannover. While Hannover was incorporated into the Kingdom of Prussia after the Austro-Prussian war of 1866, Bismarck left Brunswick to continue as an independent state, although the last Duke had to resign and a Prussian prince was installed as Governor of the Dukedom. In 1913, the last King of hannover's son married the Kaiser's daughter Victoria Luise and he was then created new Duke of Brunswick. After WW2, Brunswick was also incorporated into the new Bundesland Niedersachsen (Lower Saxony) of the Federal Republic of Germany.
Because of the dynastic connection, Brunswick also had a Guelphic horse as its emblem, the only tiny difference being that the Brunswick hore is shown with a piece of ground at its feet. The elongated running form is typical of the Hannover horse as well and the difference to the Westphalen horse shows up articularly well here.
Regards,
KarlComment
-
Karl,
Excellent information, thank you! Don't be 'sorry'!
AndrewComment
Comment