Fake Em aluminium SS buckle 822 / 37

[Hasse.M]

Ok, let's try to write more.

Thank you!

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Jean Pierre:

I noticed that you said that the newest fakes are die struck and not cast.

NO, I did not say that! I said I do not know if the last ones are die stamped or cast. It means there is no guarantee fakers changed their way of production for this particuliar model but since quality is so nice right now that die stamping could be an option. I will try to find out during the next show I will attend. Even if it is not (for me) of great importance it can be for others. Also, since fakers are die stamping fake aluminum SS officer buckles marked 36/40, why not producing those EM 822/37 as well. But just a thought, not a conviction.

Do you know if original dies are used for this, or are these new dies that are being used?
I spoke to somebody who saw the original Souval dies for medals a few years back at the company and he told me that the dies were too rusted to be used to make anything.

I don't know since I already don't know if they are die stamped or cast. But if I refer to other latest production not a single SS buckle was stamped using an original die, not even the close to perfect Assmann 155/43's replicas.
In the past nicest fake productions like the "OLT" were also produced with new dies. So??

And, when O & C sold their Third Reich dies a few years ago do you know if anybody bought them and used them to make fake buckles?

I wasn't there and I am not part of faker's favorite list (and they are not in mine neither). Furthermore, as I said above, I did not find (yet) a SS Buckle reproduction I could say with certitude was made using an original die. Of course, as usual there is rumors (there is ALWAYS rumors) but I never been able to verify myself any of them. Here again, does not mean others did not, but not me.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Thank you!

You're welcome

[John T]

Hi Jean Pierre:

Thank you very much for that information.

I have another question. I read that the fake "nickel" pieces coming from Hungary with O and C marks were made based on the wartime O and C design...where these made from original dies? I know the back is crude on these but the detail on the front of these was well executed. It is interesting for me to see the evolution of the fake pieces.

John

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

I read that the fake "nickel" pieces coming from Hungary with O and C marks were made based on the wartime O and C design...where these made from original dies?

NO! Definitively not from original dies. But indeed it is true that the design on the fakes is a copy of the design used by Overhoff for his latest steel production (unmarked steel SS EM buckles - variant x), so "based" on the wartime O&C design. BUT it is NOT a 100% matching copy and the time frame is not matching neither. Anyone with good eyes and taking time to look side by side at both a steel unmarked original and a fake nickel silver (or else) will find several major differences showing it was not an original die which was used. And with the number of those fakes been produced using the exact same wrong design (nickel silver and steel, marked O&C ges.gesch., RODO, A&S, 155/40, 36/42, etc...) the die should be in kevlar or, even better, in spider web !!
To be back to the time frame, the design Overhoff used to produce his variant x of unmarked steel SS EM buckles was never used to stamp early nickel silver production. These were made by another engraver.

I know the back is crude on these but the detail on the front of these was well executed. It is interesting for me to see the evolution of the fake pieces

It is no longer true. There is some with a very nice back stamping since a while. Here is photo of it.

[John T]

Jean Pierre:

That is a very interesting picture of the reverse...I see a few differences from the original, but still an improvement over the crude backs...it would be interesting to do a study on the evolution of the fake SS pieces...from what I have learned from you, this information alone could fill up a good size reference book and make very interesting reading, although I am sure the demand would be only amongst us collectors of these items.

John

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

...make very interesting reading, although I am sure the demand would be only amongst us collectors of these items...

...and fakers who will use some info to further improve their production .
Without any glasses they already have eagle's eyes, there is no need to provide them "magnificent glasses" !

The key still remains to stick with knowledge of proven originals since they will not change. Fakes are in constant movement. So it is much easier (and faster) to study originals than trying to keep track of everything new been produced IMHO.