HJ buckle fake?

[Dave-B]

Hi all,
I'm almost certain that this buckle is a repro but I thought I'd better check.It is marked on the reverse in the diamond RZM M5/276,which I presume is an instant red flag because isn't the RZM designation for buckles M/4?

It is attached to a rotten old belt leather marked JV2 723....mean anything to anyone?

Many thanks

Dave

[Dave-B]

reverse

[Dave-B]

close up RZM mark

[Dave-B]

belt leather markings

[Chad Williams]

NO...buckle is good ...maker just marked it stangly for some unknown reason...many of us have these in our collections, mine even has the original rzm tag still attached...chad

[Dave-B]

Really!!?...even with the M/5 mark??


Dave

[David North]

Dave

Chad is spot on here.

The buckle is perfectly sound and the strange positioning of the RZM and M5 often puts people on guard.

A well documented buckle by Klein und Quenzer, although yours has the less common type of pin shroud and claws.

Attached is the more commonly one seen.

Regards,

David

[David North]

reverse

[Dave-B]

Klein und Quenzer made buckles!!!!!.....I didn't know that! Well I've learnt a few things today,thank you Chad and David.

Is the M/5 mark just a mistake made by K&Q and did they rectify this mistake?

David,any idea on the leather stamping?

Thanks again

Dave

[Dave-B]

Just out of curiosity David,why does the RZM tag on your buckle have M4/115 and the buckle is marked M5/276??

Have you got a pic of the actual RZM circle you could possibly post?

Many thanks

Dave

[David North]

Dave

I did warn you that this quite special and distinct HJ often puts collectors on guard, although really, an absolute puzzler and for many years regarded as a fake.

K u Q did have a M4 code, although for some quite unkown reason, they incorporated their M5 accessory items code into their die. Whatsmore, the buckle is often seen with this slightly rogue and "non standard" RZM label, which shows the M4 code! I have absolutely no firm idea why, although it has been suggested and suggested only, that the odd and non official RZM label, was organised by K u Q as a means to display their M4 credibility!

Just to complicate matters, the buckle is normally seen in painted steel and with a very simple pin and claw arrangement. Yours however is different by both the finish and pin shroud/claw arrangement.

Anyway, the RZM logo on the one that I posted.

A further variance is that the buckle is seen both with and without the RZM logo !!

Have not got a clue about the strap - sorry.

Regards,

David

[Dave-B]

Wow,thanks for the info David! The finish on my buckle is strange,it seems to be plated on the obverse but is matt and paint like on the reverse .The buckle is steel.

Do you think its a keeper then?

I bought it complete with a tiny HJ shirt and neck scarf with woggle.

Cheers

Dave

[Dave-B]

NO...buckle is good ...maker just marked it stangly for some unknown reason...many of us have these in our collections, mine even has the original rzm tag still attached...chad

Chad,do you think you could possibly post a pic of your buckle front and back please mate?

Dave

[Don Scowen]

Really!!?...even with the M/5 mark??
Dave

This is why I love these forums........ I learn something new every day

Cheers
Don

[Dave-B]

Wow,thanks for the info David! The finish on my buckle is strange,it seems to be plated on the obverse but is matt and paint like on the reverse .The buckle is steel.

Do you think its a keeper then?

I bought it complete with a tiny HJ shirt and neck scarf with woggle.

Cheers

Dave

I have had a really good look at the buckle and have realised it is not plated but in fact PAINTED,all of the painted finish on the obverse is completely worn off apart from a little in the recesses.Most of the painted finish remains to the reverse though!!

Dave