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    #1

    The ugliest SA that we have ever seen?

    Surely the ugliest SA that we have ever seen.

    The buckle is however not as interesting as it first appears.

    A standard and large size eagle design which at some point, has had the front carefully buffed, with a resultant distorted eagle. The buffing probably to reduce the stamped profile and in order to accept a badge of some sorts - note the two pin holds for presumably, pins.

    Regards,

    David
    Last edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:41 AM.
    Tags: None
    #2
    02
    Last edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:41 AM.

    Comment

      #3
      03
      Last edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:41 AM.

      Comment

        #4
        I think it very rare type СА.
        It is valid so?

        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by Renfield
          Surely the ugliest SA that we have ever seen.

          The buckle is however not as interesting as it first appears.

          A standard and large size eagle design which at some point, has had the front carefully buffed, with a resultant distorted eagle. The buffing probably to reduce the stamped profile and in order to accept a badge of some sorts - note the two pin holds for presumably, pins.

          Regards,

          David
          I think it look quite quaint in a sad sort of way.......

          I assume that it was an attempt to de-nazify or do you think perhaps a cheap way to upgrade to a newer design?

          Cheers
          Don

          Comment

            #6
            Don

            I think that this is a good conversion, rather than an attempt to convert to something else?? I have seen so many spoiled buckles in the past and it never ceases to amaze me why this genre is so popular on the auction sites. M'thinks not a de nazification buckle and instead, a careful conversion (pre 1945 or post 1945) of a distinct buckle, to something else. To what, I have not got a clue!

            Vlad

            What is a type CA? A most interesting response.

            Regards,

            David

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by Renfield
              Don

              I think that this is a good conversion, rather than an attempt to convert to something else?? I have seen so many spoiled buckles in the past and it never ceases to amaze me why this genre is so popular on the auction sites. M'thinks not a de nazification buckle and instead, a careful conversion (pre 1945 or post 1945) of a distinct buckle, to something else. To what, I have not got a clue!

              Vlad

              What is a type CA? A most interesting response.

              Regards,

              David
              David
              I meant certainly SA,have simply written this word in Russian

              Comment

                #8
                Vlad

                My apologies that I did not pick up on CA = SA !

                Attached are a few SA roundels that I think show the eagle style, similar to the "ugly" posted here (prior to buffing of course).

                The real nuisance is that this buckle as one piece brass with a large eagle and sunwheel swastika, is one and for some while, that I have been searching for - then this chap turns up. I still think that the "ugly" was never intended to be worn in this state and that the only real question now is, a pre 1945 or post 1945 conversion?

                Regards,

                David
                Last edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:41 AM.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Renfield
                  Vlad

                  My apologies that I did not pick up on CA = SA !

                  Attached are a few SA roundels that I think show the eagle style, similar to the "ugly" posted here (prior to buffing of course).

                  The real nuisance is that this buckle as one piece brass with a large eagle and sunwheel swastika, is one and for some while, that I have been searching for - then this chap turns up. I still think that the "ugly" was never intended to be worn in this state and that the only real question now is, a pre 1945 or post 1945 conversion?

                  Regards,

                  David
                  David,

                  Looking again, I'm not so sure it's been buffed as much as originally appears. Looking at the body areas of the other examples, I'm sure that if you were to buff those down as flat as on this example, you wouldn't have the plumage markings to the extent shown. I'm starting to wonder if this look is intentional?

                  Cheers
                  Don

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Don

                    I will be adhering strongly to the advice often given on childrens television programmes that I "..should not try this at home...".

                    Having a closer squint at the obverse detail, it would appear that you could be right. An initial buffing, although finished with an element of hand engraving.

                    The detail does not mirror the reverse faithfully and of note, the check effect on the eagles chest and...that head!

                    Regards,

                    David

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Renfield
                      Don

                      I will be adhering strongly to the advice often given on childrens television programmes that I "..should not try this at home...".

                      Regards,

                      David
                      Why David you disappoint me, you mean you aren't going to get the old Dremmel out & see if it can be replicated? We need to know for the sake of historical research

                      Cheers
                      Don

                      Comment

                        #12
                        David,

                        You must not have checked out my list closely. If you are looking for this style buckle I have one #512. The eagle is different -ie head below the rope but one piece brass "u" catch and mobile swastika.

                        Bill

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Thanks Bill

                          Without wishing to be overly pedantic, I did actually scrutinise your excellent "for sale" list very closely. One SA that so far has "got away" is the very large eagle type with the head well and truly into the wreath and not under, with the sunwheel and not the mobile swastika.

                          Thankyou anyway for the gentle reminder.

                          Regards,

                          David

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Hello David, & all,
                            I think the buckle in question has been denazified immediately postwar and then "renazified" at some point in the not-so-distant past by an enterprising but inexpert restorer. The original fine details can be seen on the back but the swastika has obviously been pounded flat. The eagle has also been sanded or filed flat on the front. The front shows the swastika has been crudely re-embossed and details added to the remnants of the eagle's body with an engraving tool.
                            The denazification process in Germany was by order of the occupation forces and was complied with in varying degrees. Original buckles can often be found with only the swastika filed off or the entire inscription erased. Some were modified or restamped to be used again by postwar police.
                            Another interesting sub-genre is captured German buckles used by partisan or Russian forces. These are often modified with the addition of a red star or engraved inscription. I suspect that this genre is rife with fakes, however.
                            Novice collectors should be aware that modern fake buckles are being deliberately defaced and being sold as denazified originals, although one would think such emasculated buckles could only have a very limited appeal, be they real or bogus.
                            Regards,
                            Kevin

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Kevin

                              I think that your theory is sound, although one to be added to a list of possible explanations. Anyway, I am regarding this buckle as an oddity or curiosity item rather than anything more significant.

                              The only point that I slightly disagree upon is your comment with regard to the quality of the "conversion" work. Actually, I think that it is rather good.

                              Regards,

                              David

                              Comment

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