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Belt-buckle article in the latest "MILITARY ADVISOR"

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    #31
    Hello Marc, Peter and others. I had contributed a bit to Wehrmacht.com, but was pulled away to other sites. I returned as I understand my recent article in Military Advisor has caused some consternation wtih particpants on this forum.

    Fraud is a strong word to use, especially when it is apparent one has not read the article completely, or is confused by the text.

    Let me quote the most apparent contentious paragraph.

    "How else can we explain the presence of buckles such as the three variations of the Landespolizei and the Gau Essen. The Feldgrau Landespolizei buckle was not even listed in the Assmann catalog. Was it an unsaleable creations of Assmann or a post war creation for the young collectors? Given the condition of the factories, our man believes these feldgrau buckles to be legitimate war-time Assmann creations that were never authorized or adopted."


    If you read this paragraph in its entirety, you will note that I do not suggest the Gau Essen buckle, or any other buckle except the Feldgrau Landespolizei, to possibly be a post-war creation. To suggest otherwise is simply untrue. And, I wrote that the source of the information in this article believed the Feldgrau LAPO buckle to be of authentic war time production.

    There was never an assertion that all of these buckles were purchased solely from Assmann. Nor is it written in the article that the buckles in the photograph all came from the Assmann factory. Marc, to assert that I did write this is simply not true. I quote from my article. "But our shrewd collector had the foresight to photograph some of the pristine pieces that came from those factories." I mention in the article that the young man visited many factories from which he purchased material. As a matter of fact, one of the letters from Assmann not published indicated the Assmann source was selling buckles from "...an older man who used to have a factory here in Lüdensheid."

    The photographs used in the article were produced some some twenty years ago from original 35mm negatives provided to me by the gentleman in this article, as were the copies of his original correspondance and the page from the sales flyer featuring the buckles. The dealer was Col.Stoddard from San Diego who purchased material from this man. I was told these were photographs of the original buckles from the cache purchased in Germany. I readily admit that I am not an expert in the general field of buckle collecting. The photograph of the boxes was added by the Roger Bender from his file copies to add "color" to the article.

    I have written a number of articles for "The Military Advisor". Well documented articles on the Nazi Colonial Police and their honor dagger, the Fuhrerschule of the Sicherheitspolizei and Nazi Police flags of which I am very proud. This article on buckles was not a patch work fabrication as has been asserted in this thread. I made no attempt to assert Gau Essen buckles to be fake.
    The article was intended to demonstrate how I believe these buckles to have been introduced into the collecting field. The story is true.

    But I simply do not understand how it this article could have produced such anger in you Marc, to accuse me of fraudulently creating it. We have met and shared information on a congenial basis. What have I done to merit such an outburst? I state that I believe buckles such as the Gau Essen and the LAPO buckles are unused prototypes which found their way to collectors by means of post war purchases by men such as my friend.

    Comment


      #32
      Good evening mister Wotka, I was writing a response when your post came in so I will change it and make it more simple and shorter.

      Escalation of anger is not the worth.
      But moderator or not, fed up with attacks on my person every time I have personal opinion on an SS buckle or SS related buckles, or even dear to touch the subject … YES!
      Mr. Redeuilh has for the past year and half claimed that soon a new all revealing article on the Gau Essen buckle would be stunning and devastating…. I do not see anything new in this article. This is not a personal attack against you at all, I purposely stipulate this by saying that you might have been fooled yourself.

      I was also answering to Pieter’s questions. I feel and other collectors here in Belgium feel (maybe it is the language problem) that the article is turned towards the suggestion that the buckles as the Gau Essen might be a post war production (title: Souvenirs from Post WWII Germany / conclusion of the Young collector post war production.)

      The following is the text I was planning to post before you reacted.



      ""The pictures are not from any Assmann trove in the 50’s. They are from a few large collections in Europe (France / Belgium) (myself included) these pictures and many others where taken long time ago but some also as close as 23 April 2001.
      They where send to many collectors in the world by myself and other collectors.

      One can very easily see that he picture "A" in the article is just a variation of the colour and the black and white picture I posted, just look at the position of the ‘Green pebbled" landespolizie buckles on top who is a bit higher than the others. Also, a close look at the catches of the buckles permits to see thin red strings to hold the buckles on the display cloth. This is visible on all 3 pictures. They are MY buckles in MY collection. What are the chances of me being able reconstructing the pictures published in the article in a few hours just to piss off a few collectors (if this is what some of the members suggest)??

      If the buckles pictures are not good to base the article on as they are not what they say they are, than there rest only one picture of an invoice of the Overhoff factory selling a few buckles to a US address in 1959.

      I do have in my archives many invoices and correspondence form the Assmann, Overhoff and other Ludesheid factories dated from the 50’s/ 60’s / 70’s. This invoice does not describe any buckles.

      Conclusion: This article proves nothing, brings no more information on the Gau Essen or any other buckle except more confusion. Nothing more is proven regarding the Gau Essen, is it SS? SA, Police? All suggestions are still open.""



      The story might be true for you and I HONESTLY believe you do not purposely wanted to mislead the collectors but taking in consideration the evidence I have in my hands regarding the pictures, you would probably react the same. I could, with the same pictures (that I took), together with a few invoices I bought in Germany made the same article and claimed that I heard it from an old dealer in California…. What do you suggest happen with the pictures??

      Marc

      Comment


        #33
        the below Picture was taken twenty minutes ago it shows some of the buckles on the display in picture "A" There where 10 displays similar to picture "A" all of them on red / Bordeaux velvet. Some of them with EM buckles under which the SS prototypes. One can see the strings that used to hold the buckles in place. I made these displays.

        The grey scale background is also the one I use for many years in the past to post pictures on the forum and to send pictures of buckles of my collection to other collectors, (including hundreds to Mr. JP Redeuilh) one can always recognise my tags and my handwriting. Many members of this forum have handled or seen these tags and will recognise them easily. Pictures posted by anyone else with this background and these tags are easily recognisable as being mine.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

        Marc<o></o>
        Attached Files
        Last edited by Marc verstraete; 12-14-2004, 07:25 PM.

        Comment


          #34
          This picture, taken at my house together with my good friends Marco who passed away this summer and Philippe Gillain show the buckles pictured in the article displayed on my TV room table. Marco and Philippe are holding the octagonal buckles in hand while I hold the “Batman” prototype. It is on that occasion that the buckles where taken of the velvet displays and pictured individually.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

          Marc
          Attached Files

          Comment


            #35
            I'ts long past bedtime...good night.

            Marc

            Comment


              #36
              Hi,

              Can anyone please tell me what the buckle with the skull on the front was for?

              Thanks! Chris

              Comment


                #37
                Now than Joe did his post and I do not feel any need to clear things, I am totally out of this thread. Was I supposed to be in anyway?

                Talking with reason is one thing and for who wants to get deeper in this subject (Gau Essen buckles) and know what I said or not, he/she can read all my original posts which are still available in this Forum (at least the ones not deleted, moved or edited), in the GDC and the SS Buckle Group. Nothing has changed.
                But I am not a surgeon and can't deal with paranoïa.
                At least I found very kind to get over someone else just to try to get me by ricochet. Very kind

                So, bye, bye!
                Jean Pierre Redeuilh
                All my collection of SS Buckles is for sale. Contact jpredeu@rogers.com for inquiries

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by SScollector
                  Hi,

                  Can anyone please tell me what the buckle with the skull on the front was for?

                  Thanks! Chris
                  The “scull” buckle is a werewolf buckle. This was a Weimar period “freicorps” type organisation.<O></O>

                  <O></O>

                  Comment


                    #39
                    The buckle pictured here also has the remains of the red tread used to keep the buckle on the velvet displays.<O
                    The buckle has been varnished.

                    Marc
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Thank you very much Mark, for the excellent pictures.
                      I thought the Werewolf was a non-government, non-military organization.
                      So, why would an official company produce an official belt buckle
                      for a civilian organization?

                      Thanks again! Chris

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by SScollector
                        Thank you very much Mark, for the excellent pictures.
                        I thought the Werewolf was a non-government, non-military organization.
                        So, why would an official company produce an official belt buckle
                        for a civilian organization?

                        Thanks again! Chris
                        Chris.
                        The Wehrwolf (Bund deutscher Maenner) had well over 100,000 members, all in uniform.
                        Buckle makers were first and foremost commercial enterprises, so it would not have made sense for them to turn down a contract to make buckles for such a large organisation.
                        The skull buckle without a 'W' beneath was related to the Brunswick Infantry, albeit unofficially. I have seen a wedding photo of an Imperial Brunswicker wearing the rectangular buckle with skull on its own.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Thanks Robin!
                          Last edited by SScollector; 12-15-2004, 11:10 PM.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            More facts?

                            I’m sorry for the ones who do not like this treat but I found a few more pictures.
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by Marc verstraete; 12-18-2004, 06:21 AM.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Another picture I found where one can see three of my early Bordeaux velvet display boards.

                              As Marco died this summer, I cannot be blamed to make this picture up just to upset a few members! (Two display boards on the couch, one on the floor.)

                              I’m still looking for the pictures I took of the smaller displays where one can see all the buckles by six at the time on individual plates. These pictures where intended to be send to collectors and authors for personal references.

                              Marc
                              Attached Files

                              Comment


                                #45
                                ........
                                Attached Files

                                Comment

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