Droptail LW Buckle & Web Belt?

[RayG]

I just got this belt and buckle from a vet. The leather tab has a lot of markings. There is a droptail eagle and swaska and the name Neubausen G?121 stamped inside a retangle in one place and Neubausen is stamped again on the tip. The date 1935 is stamped twice, also "LBA". The name "Otto Koberstein Landsberg aW" is stamped on the tap also. The buckle is stamped RS&S. Can anyone tell me who the maker of the buckle is? Whats interesting to me is the name Otto Koberstein Landsberg aW is also on a rubberized/painted canvas G43 magazine pouch that I have that also came from a Vet. The billet on the canvas belt has been shorten a bit. I know they used canvas belts in tropical areas and also all over in the later part of the war. Can anyone tell from the photo if this is an earlier one or a later one. The only mark I can find on the belt is a "B o". Any opinions what the belt and buckle are worth? Ray

[RayG]

The tab

[RayG]

[RayG]

The belt

[Gene]

Nice looking set. RS&S I believe is Richard Simm & Sohn, and the stamping on the tab is Gr.121 Neuhausen. It looks like theres a stamping in front of the Gr.121, which would help identify what unit this is. Can't say whether the belt is late war or not, but value is probably around $200.

[RayG]

Thanks Gene, there are additional stampings where you mentioned but I think they are part of the mfg letters as part is under the stitching. There are more stampings down near the tip. Because of the pebbled leather and the way they are stamped I can not make them out. I think the stamping by the tip are the unit number but all I can make out is one number which is either a 8 or 3. Thought I'd post a photo of the G43 pouch to show the it's the same mfg. Isn't unusual that the pouch still carries the full name and not a code for the mfg being at least 1943 or later. But for some reason I could not get the photo to come up, Ray

[RayG]

Sorry but that should read, isn't it unusual.

[Gene]

Looking at the photo more it looks like it says "Aufkl Gr121" or Reconnaisance Group 12 which must have been based in Neuhausen. I don't know anything about G43 pouches except that they, along with MP44 pouches, are heavily reproduced ad nauseum. I avoid them since I've never seen a known good pair; sorry I can't be of more help on them.

[RayG]

G43 pouch

Jene I'm amazed how you can read that by the photo. That is exactly what it looks like now that I know what letters to look for.
The pouch is original as it came from a vet. I missed the G43 but did get the instruction booklet that was in the butt. I know there are numberious repros out there but this one is good. The material is painted or rubberized canvas and I believe there are some bayonet scabbards made of the same material. I got the photo to work this time. Ray

[RayG]

G43 pouch

Here is the back side with the name

[Marc verstraete]

Hello RayG

The buckle is made by Richard SIEPER & Sohne in Ludenscheid
(RZM contract M4/38) and like the date on the tab shows (1935) this is an early type dropped tail buckle.
The markings on the tab are indeed unit markings and in the picture below you can see the same markings on one of my buckles!! Only my buckle is made by S.E & L.

What I do not understand is the small marking
Right after the R S & S. It looks like a small diamond shape.
I would be very interested in seeing this marking from closer or having a good description of it. This marking does not make cense because this is the logo of an other firm.

Are there any markings on the belt that would make it possible to see if this belt was originally a LW belt that came with this buckle or could it be a W.H belt where someone has mounted a LW buckle on?
Tropical LW buckles normally have a webbing tab. This buckles has been distributed and used long before the war and I doubt that it would have been used in Africa.
As for the value, the $200 mentioned earlier is correct if the belt is LW. Because the LW belt would be much more interesting than the buckle itself or any W.H web belt. But remember that only a specific LW marking on this belt will prove this! The buckle itself in this condition would be worth about $50 / $70 I sell some of my spare first pattern buckles with dropped tails in used condition for $60 and in 100% mint condition for $100 / $125
I hope this will help you.

As for the G43 pouches, you are a lucky man! Even if I do not collect those items anymore, the good ones are scarce as moonstones! I have only had one in my life from which I was 100% sure; I picked them up myself in a fox hole in the Ardennes (battle of the bulge) in the 70’s.
Marc V.
PS: Let me know if you wish to sell or trade this buckle, I am interested in the marking on the buckle.

[RayG]

Diamond

Marc, here's a better photo of the diamond. It's on the other end of the buckle. The only markings on the belt are the "B o" on the leather billet and on the canvas belt at the tip on the underside is ink stamped in large letters "100"

[buckle1]

Very nice buckle and belt. To comment on the diamond marking and for Marc's info this is found occassionaly on Seiper marked aluminum buckles. It is most commonly found under the prong bar not in front of the catch. Marc, if you check the aluminum Postal I sent you there is the same mark under the prong bar.

Bill

[Marc verstraete]

Thank you for the close-up photo of the logo under the prongs.
I recognise it better now. On the first picture with the logo next to the RS&S, I mistakenly identified the logo as the one from Steinhauer and Luck. Witch is very similar. And because it has been seen before that there are markings of two different factories on one buckle I was intrigued by this possible association. Like Bill point out correctly, this logo normally comes under the prongs and not next to the abbreviation in front of the catch.
This is what made this forum so interesting, one learn every day.
Marc V.

[RayG]

Just found out a little history on the Neubausen Luftwaffe unit that was based there. (name on the buckle). That camp
was a concentration/labor camp! It was also the VI rocket production facility after the Pedumunda works was bombed! The production end of it was all underground - a huge complex. Actually the site was recently opened up for tours. The Russians closed the entrances (dynamited) at the end of the war. The place was still loaded with rocket parts and stuff - all rusted of course, but neat to see. There was a special on it for the History Channel. I remember seeing the special but didn't put it together until a buddy told me. Of course you guys probably knew this already. I'm still learning, Ray