Rare ...koppleschloss...der SS HJ

[juoneen]

Alright hang on to your hats . Had a vets son offer me a small lot, of stuff his dad brought home. He was not a collector. I was also pshaw'd when I mentioned the first GZM HJ ever found I got also from a veterans as a kid, but in the 60's makers were paid little attention to. and not like today in the hobby. This buckle in question today at first I thought was unmarked. Upon closer examination I noticed a mark in the diamond on the back. Not a diamond mark with ss, but inside the diamond of the hj insignia (incused).

The mark I believe is an ss manufacturer , as buckle makers do not run this high, and the M number is not a 4, but a 5. The majority again will shout fake...but hang on, this one I believe may be important to discuss, as if so, It may have been worn by a Hitler jungend Div EM.

[juoneen]

The buckle is steel, not nickle steel...and is painted with the silver type paint used on ss em types. Since the ss manufacturers code numbers have yet to be cracked fully, and only partially....I believe the number will shake up the buckle collectors when seen.

I will describe the markings first, and see what positive feedback it brings, although when I mentioned the GZM years ago before piter got into his schpeal on the subject, I think this may be the same to get the same cat calls in its own way. (have at it)

The markings are down the left side of the diamond (RZM in a double circle), and the manufacturers mark is going up the right side of the diamond and says (M5/ 276).....now, I know what's going on in your brains, as there supposedly were no M5 markings on HJ koppleschlossers...but there never were supposedly ss marks on aluminum skulls , and I proved that theory is wrong, there was no GZM supposedly, and this was proven wrong, although mr piter has my photos he got through a buckle author I gave the rights to to use , although after piter got the photos he refused to write the author back, and dropped out except for the forum here, and some other forums online.

This buckle , and items like I mentioned above ,are the reason we are here, as vets pass on, and new items turn up...and authors become obsolete on some of their assumptions and theorys, as new proof is found when egos take a back seat to provenance and sting a few haids.

This one I believe will also shake up that originals are only inside a specific box attitude , but we must keep an open mind to learn and gain new knowledge as it happens , regardless of the item, and new findings that as this does has real provenance.

Please feel free to verbally abuse my information if that's the way you feel ,as it likely I suspect will be , but in your own subconcious, be willing to consider first, that this was not a show find, and has been in the family since the end of the war. I will look back on this thread manana, and see what kinds of poo gets thrown my way, and I suppose the Hj folks, and koppleschlosser nuts will be the most intrigued of all, when I finally add the coup de grass....

In the mean while , any comments would be welcomed for those here who can read this many words in a row (kudos to the reading literate) , regardless of negativity and who knows , possibly it may even get some positive comments, we will see, but until then, If you are a buckle guy, and and care to broach the subject in a discussion first...please post your comments and criticisms as you feel should be noted on this subject. And my thanks to all regardless of your corner you wish to stand in.

[klr]

Rare ...koppleschloss...der SS HJ

It sounds like you have an M5/276 marked HJ. They are interesting buckles but not rare. No reason for them to be M5 instead of M4. Sorry it 's not a super rare variation but photos would help .

[Guido L.]

.... In the mean while , any comments would be welcomed for those here who can read this many words in a row (kudos to the reading literate) ....

For my taste too many words about just a simple - standard - K&Q HJ buckle we have seen so many times here in the forum.

Never heard from Waffen-SS soldiers who wore HJ buckles. Do you have pictures or any other evidence available?

Best,
Guido

[aechols83]

Agreed with Guido and Kirby that this is a commonly seen HJ by Klein u. Quenzer. They can either feature a bare or shrouded pin assembly and can be found with tags. Much rarer is the die-struck zinc HJ by KuQ, also featuring the RZM M5/276 marking but on the buckle lip. Attached here is that buckle along with another by maker H. Aurich which is similiarly marked within the diamond. This buckle also features the "crank" style catch.

Best,
Adam

[aechols83]

H. Aurich steel HJ with crank catch...

[juoneen]

You guys are right ...here are the shots of this version.

Of course never finding one of these and not researching prior , I agree with the comments . There was another thread on another forum on the buckle , although it seems they made three different types. One with barrel on the hook shaft, one without, and another marked around the hook area, and not steel.My sincere Thanks for the help, sorry for taking so long to get back to the thread. My photo server changed their format, and is more complicated to use.

[juoneen]

I will post the other finds asap in this guys familys stuff. Thanks again and Ill try and be less wordy in the future. (good critique) I guess there are four different types of these . I will add the other thread, and also there is a list of m5 uniform acccessorys by numbers that run into the 300's. That was what made me think it may have been an ss contractor.