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    #1

    SS EM markings

    Hello all,
    A question regarding the SS EM nickel buckle with RZM 57 SS (the SS is under the prong bar). Angolia has it on pages 207, 212 marked wrongly as aluminium. Does anyone know the manufacturer, date, and relative rarity of the buckle?
    Regards,
    Kevin
    Tags: None
    #2
    Hello Kevin,
    So far we still don't know for sure who was behind this buckle but we are working on it since Marc has one overstamped Ges.Gesch. and I have one overstamped Ges.Gesch. Muk (see photo for how is the Muk). So these informations bring us to realize that whoever made those buckles was in business before the RZM period (1934) or before the SS/RZM contracts (1935/1936). If we could know to who was belonging this Muk, we will have a better understanding. So far we don't.
    Also, since there is SS runes under the post, there is no way to be able to rely on the 57 been "RZM 57" (with 57 been related to a number given by the RZM - like RZM (M4/)57 - ) or RZM 57 SS (with 57 been an early RZM/SS contract number without the year of manufacture - like RZM 57 (/36) SS)

    Regarding rarity, of course it is rarer than the common Overhoff marked O&C Ges.Gesch., but it is as rare as a RZM 63 SS, a RZM 24. a RZM SS 35/36 or RZM SS 36/36, not more.

    Do you have any other clue ?
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Jean Pierre Redeuilh; 07-04-2002, 10:17 AM.
    Jean Pierre Redeuilh
    All my collection of SS Buckles is for sale. Contact jpredeu@rogers.com for inquiries

    Comment

      #3
      57 RZM Code for Belt Buckle Manufacturers. Made by Julius Maurer, Oberstein.

      Comment

        #4
        Hello Tom,

        RZM M4/57 is Julius Maurer, Oberstein and I agree with you, but RZM 57 does not mean it is RZM M4/57. Just take example on buckles marked RZM 24. These were made by Overhoff (and not by Friedrich Linden who had the RZM M4/24) during a short period when Overhoff had RZM number 24 for a lot of things including belt buckles. This Overhoff RZM 24 number was later changed to RZM M1/24 for Metal Insignia and badges and in RZM M4/27 for belt buckles. Furthermore Overhoff received again later another number, 36 for RZM / SS contracted belt buckles.
        So, how can we read this 57 number ?
        - As 57 very early RZM number (and NOT RZM M4/57) OR
        - As 57 been RZM M4/57 (in that case J.Maurer) OR
        - As 57 been a RZM / SS contract number (so once again not related to RZM M4/xx code)

        This is why the above MuK could be the missing link to find out more about it.
        Jean Pierre Redeuilh
        All my collection of SS Buckles is for sale. Contact jpredeu@rogers.com for inquiries

        Comment

          #5
          m4 As part of an RZM code indicates that this is a belt buckle. The makers number follows.

          Overhoff,Maurer and RZM 57......

          24 RZM Code for Insignia and Badges. Made by Overhoff & Cie. , Lüdenscheid

          71 RZM Code for Uniform Accessories. Made by Overhoff & Cie. , Lüdenscheid

          81 Overhoff and Co, Ludenschaft. On German medals and awards.

          o & c Overhoff and Co, Ludenscheid.

          41 RZM Code for Tinnies (Meeting badges). Made by Julius Maurer G. m. b. H. , Oberstein

          43 RZM Code for Insignia and Badges. Made by Julius Maurer G. m. b. H. , Oberstein a. d. N.

          208 RZM Code for Uniform Accessories. Made by Juijus Maurer G. m. b. H. , Oberstein a. d. Nahe

          ayg Julius Maurer, Oberstein an der Nahe. WW2 German Ordnance code

          L23 Julius Maurer, Oberstein. On German medals and awards.

          57 Karl Hensier. Ludenscheid. On German medals and awards.

          57 RZM Code for Tinnies (Meeting badges). Made by Gebrüder Lange, Lüdenscheid

          57 RZM Code for Daggers. Made by Peter Lungstrass, Solingen-Ohligs

          57 RZM Code for Insignia and Badges. Made by M Winter. Munich.

          57 RZM Code for Uniform Accessories. Made by Paul Schumacher, Lüdenscheid

          57 RZM Code for Belt Buckle Manufacturers. Made by Julius Maurer, Oberstein.

          I have no data on MUK sorry.

          Regards.
          Tom

          Comment

            #6
            m1 As part of an RZM code indicates that this item of insignia is made of metal.

            m2 as part of an RZM code indicates that this piece was made by a Subcontractor, his number follows.

            m3 As part of an RZM code indicates that this metal symbol or emblem was made of metal and the makers number follows.

            m4 As part of an RZM code indicates that this is a belt buckle. The makers number follows.

            m5 As part of an RZM code indicates that this is a uniform accessory made of metal. The makers number follows.

            m6 As part of an RZM code indicates that this item is made of Aluminium. The makers number follows.

            m7 As part of an RZM code indicates that this is a dagger. The makers number follows.

            m8 As part of an RZM code indicates that this accessory is made of metal. The makers number follows.

            m9 As part of an RZM code indicates that this is a Tinnie (a Meeting Badge). The makers number follows.

            m10 As part of an RZM code indicates that this is a musical instrument. The makers number follows.

            m11 As part of an RZM code indicates that this is a NSDAP long service medal. The makers number follows.

            m12 As part of an RZM code indicates that this is a NSDAP miniature long Service Medal. The makers number follows.

            Comment

              #7
              sorry for all the posts but this might interest you.

              Ges, Gesch=gesetzlich geschutzt, means copyright patented.

              Comment

                #8
                Thank You Tom for this long list, but it takes care of RZM codes attribuated when the RZM subdivided class of manufacture. You are missing the period (not UE numbers) where manufactors had a RZM number for the biggest part of their production. As I already said, Overhoff for a short period had RZM 24 for Buttons, Medals and Badges and Belt Buckles, all under the same number.
                If we are using your list, there is no indication a belt buckle bearing RZM 24 is made by Overhoff.
                Please look at this buckle, who is the maker for you, based on what you see as marking ?
                Attached Files
                Jean Pierre Redeuilh
                All my collection of SS Buckles is for sale. Contact jpredeu@rogers.com for inquiries

                Comment

                  #9
                  Back with marking
                  Attached Files
                  Jean Pierre Redeuilh
                  All my collection of SS Buckles is for sale. Contact jpredeu@rogers.com for inquiries

                  Comment

                    #10
                    I see your point. Even so I am not familiar with the evolution of the RZM system and bow to your superior knowledge on the subject. I have no data on this mark as a belt buckle manufacturer.....sorry. I do however have 24 on its own as..... 24 Arbeitsgemeinshaft der Hanauer Plaketten Hersteller, Hanau. On German medals and awards.
                    regards.
                    Tom.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Hello Tom,

                      Very lucky who will be able to know everything about the RZM and also about the RZM/SS contracts !
                      For the above buckles, since now you understood questions regarding who was maker of the SS Buckles marked RZM 57 SS (which are like the RZM 24 shown but with the addition of SS proof - which could be the indication that the 57 is there NOT like the 24 (a RZM number) but a RZM/SS contract number - , I will answer to my own question regarding the RZM 24 belt buckles.
                      Attached Files
                      Jean Pierre Redeuilh
                      All my collection of SS Buckles is for sale. Contact jpredeu@rogers.com for inquiries

                      Comment

                        #12
                        ...and photos of the RZM 57 SS
                        Attached Files
                        Jean Pierre Redeuilh
                        All my collection of SS Buckles is for sale. Contact jpredeu@rogers.com for inquiries

                        Comment

                          #13
                          ...RZM 57
                          Attached Files
                          Jean Pierre Redeuilh
                          All my collection of SS Buckles is for sale. Contact jpredeu@rogers.com for inquiries

                          Comment

                            #14
                            ...and SS proof
                            Attached Files
                            Jean Pierre Redeuilh
                            All my collection of SS Buckles is for sale. Contact jpredeu@rogers.com for inquiries

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Front of buckle (for pleasure)
                              Attached Files
                              Jean Pierre Redeuilh
                              All my collection of SS Buckles is for sale. Contact jpredeu@rogers.com for inquiries

                              Comment

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