A well documented buckle, although still, not often seen.
Regards,
David
Regards,
David
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Last edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:44 AM. -
reverseLast edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:44 AM. -
Hello,
Sorry to say but I am a little suspicious of this buckle, actually. The buckle without emblem seems to have been used after the war by police or officials. Combined with an early 30s Stahlhelm it raises some doubts. I have seen this buckle with other bogus insignia attached -- from V2 rockets to NSDAP eagles.
What is the buckle made of? How about the insignia?
You say the buckle is well documented. Where? Does anyone else have any ideas?
These days it is wise to be a little paranoid about everything.
Regards,
KevinComment
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Der Stahlhelm
Hello Kevin
Many thanks for your response and hens teeth, no need for the apology as this form of discussion is the life blood of the Forum.
I have never seen this "blank" box used before, insofar as the pebbled stamped aluminium base with the tabbed inset, the latter for each side displaying a spray of laurel leaves.
Have you a post war example of this design?
The potentially bogus insignia is an interesting point and which of course is isolated within the Tom Reid publication, however again, I have never before seen an obvious fake.
The box is again pebbled aluminium and also, the buckle is clearly shown in the Angolia publication.
Also, note that the free standing helmet insignia, is not the usual Der Stahlhelm lapel badge. Instead, a raised and upright swastika declaration, rather than the imprinted Der Stahlhelm.
The buckle is not often seen, as per the usual and indeed unusual fakes and as a matter ot interest, attached is a black and white image of the same buckle that I held 25 years ago.
Regards,
DavidLast edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:44 AM.Comment
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David,
I must agree with Kevin on this one. This buckle as shown is pictured in Angolia's 2nd edition. It is not listed as a well documented buckle. I have a problem wth the tabbed construction on this as well as the prong bars. These Stahlelm buckles were produced in the 20's in two piece brass or nickel or one piece brass or nickel/silber. Additionally Tom Reid shows this buckle w/two types of construction neither of which fit this one.This production technique doesn't fit the period. I'm am not saying it is bad but these issues do raise a red flag .
BillComment
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Bill
I must have whacked the submit reply tab, at the same time as you resonded to Kevins comments.
Well documented is perhaps on refection, gilding the lilly somewhat - apologies.
Documented, instead.
It is strange however that towards the various SA and NSBO that I have and which stiil on post purchase provide me with a slight shudder factor, this one, I feel quite comfortable with.
Happy days.
Regards,
DavidComment
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Hello all,
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Questionable buckle indeed, I know a few others of these in collections around the world but the information I have on this buckle is alarming. Two old time reputable researchers / collectors / dealers have told me these buckles where made up on order during the 70’s / (early 80's ?) by a Dutch dealer. They are made with Blanc post war buckles used for the police / fire department. These blank buckles are still made today. This do not exclude that such buckle might have existed….
The other such buckles I know are made of three parts, the buckle, the blank inset and the helmet on top.
Below another such mystery…
MarcComment
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Steel buckle, well know factory prongs...Comment
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Thanks for all the comments on this one.
The story that you relate Marc is quite alarming and also, the period of "manufacture", synchronises horribly well from when I first saw this buckle.
As with a few other buckles that I hold, I will keep an open mind on this one, although I suspect that hope springs eternal due to my penchant for Der Stahlhelm.
I wonder why this buckle is so rarely seen.
As a matter of interest, attached is another image of the rear and which shows a perfectly acceptable post, shroud and claw arrangement, together with claw tip wear on the obverse.
Regards,
DavidComment
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Hello all,
Again, I repeat, this is not a fake buckle made by some east European fakers not by a handy dealer in his back workshop but a fantasy piece made by a real buckle factory on order of a dealer. This is why the construction, prongs and other details are correct. It is just made a few decennia after the period it was supposed to be made…
MarcComment
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Just to square the circle on this one and on reflection, I think that I was taken in hook, line and sinker.
As Marc suggested, a "fantasy" buckle from the 1960's or 1970's.
Interesting though that this is only the second of the type that I have seen in more years than I care to remember.
Apologies to the Forum for posting a fake.
Attached are a brace of less controversial Der Stahlhelm.
Regards,
DavidLast edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:44 AM.Comment
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Hello David,
Last thing to do is apologise for the fake stahlhelm!!!!
This is why this forum exists, to share, discus and learn.
The buckle in question would have tricked many others. It is and looks very nice and attractive!!
I know someone who paid over 1000$ for it!!
(He made a book on buckles with “values” in a few years ago)
MarcComment
Comment