S A - again!

[David North]

Well chaps, here is one to make your hair curl!

Obverse appears a reasonably normal SA, however I have never seen this exact eagle design before and also, the nickle silver roundel appears slightly off centre.

The reverse however is more interesting.

Solder points appear probably modified, although the roller bar, pin and claws are worthy of special comment.

Here we go.

Narrow diameter and brass roller bar with the pin, having two flat ends, rather than the more commonly seen, dome or chamfered dome to the top.

Claws are crude and unusual to say the least and furthermore, are similar to some German buckles within the 1890's to 1920's period.

The three options of (1) unusual features to an unknown manufacturer, (2) period repair or alteration or (3) 1960's fake.

Any comments appreciated.

Regards,

David

[David North]

S A - obverse

Obverse

[Kevin Rea]

Hello there,
That prong bar is cast brass in one piece. I have the exact same buckle but with a Red Cross roundel. I think it is a modern copy. Your buckle has verdigris but it doesn't take long for that to form if stored in a damp area. Pretty much every buckle has been faked by now. I even saw a wretched cast aluminium copy of the rare Landespolizei buckle on a certain US auction firm's website. It won't be long before a really good one appears.
Regards,
Kevin

[David North]

Hello Kevin

Thanks for your response and comments on this one.

You are so right in connection with the ever increasing number of fakes and fantasy buckles in circulation at the moment, although I was unaware that the Landespolizei was now on the list. I was at a small and provincial arms fair yesterday and even here, a high number of "three spot" Stahlhelm, NSBO etc. together with otherwise blank brass boxes having spurious metal insignia affixed.

All being sold as original with prices to match.

I will still keep an open mind on this SA and for the moment, regard it essentially as a curiosity item. The verdigris can be easily simulated or stimulated, with this buckle showing signs that the claw has been within a damp leather. I agree with you totally that this feature has little significance, however interesting nevertheless.

What really bothers me are those damn claws, insofar as I have seen remarkably similar types on original Imperial and 1920's era buckles. As such, I am a fraction reluctant for the moment to dismiss this buckle outright and also, I have never seen this quite crude construction before on a fake - why go to all this trouble on an otherwise sound detail buckle? Much easier perhaps to braze a steel or brass U to a steel or brass shroud.

Thankyou again for the input and also, any chance of an image of your buckle mentioned?

Regards,

David

[Kurt Doench]

David,

Sorry but I have to side with Kevin on this one. One of my earliest purchases was of a Stahlhelm Front Heil buckle with this cast brass pin and claw assembly (I think I bought it in 1984). The one I bought is definitely a fake as I had to learn to my cost, there are numerous much better made ones around with exactly the same roundel, all fakes. Actually, I have never seen an Imperial or Weimar/early Nazi buckle with this type of pin and claw that I was comfortable with. Just one of those things I guess. The obverse of your buckle does, however, look damned good!

Regards,

Karl

[David North]

Quite simply, if two experienced and well respected Forum members feel that this buckle is wrong, then that is good enough for me. A fake, although the brass box detail is worryingly first class !

Thankyou for the input chaps.


I think we sometimes forget that SA buckles in particular, have been faked since the 1960's and interestingly, a subject rarely discussed on the Forum.


Regards,


David

[Marc verstraete]

Hello,

I would not throw this buckle out for the time being. Although the buckle looks suspicious at first hand, I do have other buckles of the same manufacture. I will need some time but hopefully I will be able to post other such examples soon. I think there is a possibility that these buckles are OK. Early fakes, in particular SA buckles where always very well made, some of them, when the original dies was used are almost not to identify. Look at the three holes buckles, except the three holes, the buckles are very good. These rude catch buckles are to seldom seen to be a mass production fake. Prongs are so easy obtainable for fakers (the same mechanical assembled prongs are used form the 20’s until this day) that moulding a crude catch would be time and money consuming. The buckle is certainly worth more investigation.

Marc