Another LW buckle ........

[François SAEZ]

I am considering selling or trading this buckle (+belt - not marked), nothing special except that it is marked 4 FRJ 2

But before doing so, I would like to have the green light, it is ok or not?

François

[François SAEZ]

2

[François SAEZ]

3

[François SAEZ]

4

[Willi Z.]

Francois,

You stated the buckle is marked 4 FRJ 2. It looks like 4./ FJR 2. Which is it? I would be interested in that buckle is you are going to sell it. I have a number of leather gear items marked to FJRs, and could use this too.

regards,

Willi

[François SAEZ]

Hi Willi,
You are right, it is 4/ FJR 2
Are you used to such markings?
If you feel OK with it fsaez@noos.fr

François

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Marc is out for the weekend and will be back only on Monday.
Since it is not a SS Buckle, my opinion is not 100% reliable but looking at this one I really don't think this buckle has anything wrong.

[Willi Z.]

Francois,

Email has been sent....

Willi

[Gene]

I can't recall seeing any buckles with unit markings on the top of the tab; all mine are marked on the back. Plus there's something about the style of those letters that bothers me. . . .

[Kurt Doench]

Hi Francois,

Both buckle and markings seem perfectly o.k. With unit markings, it is perfectly proper and according to regulation that the company number be separated by a "slash". Nothing wrong with the style of the unit marking either, as far as I can tell. Unit markings are most often found on the reverse of the "tongue", but the marking's location on ob- or reverse is no indicator either way. All in all, a very nice piece. Lucky the guy who gets it in my mind.

Greetings,

Karl

[Willi Z.]

I must let you all know how pleased I am with the speed in which Francois got me his buckle........2 days from France to New Jersey. Thanks very much Francois!!!

I have no doubt the marking is original to the tab. I too have seen plenty of unit marked buckles and though most have been on the back, some have been on the front. I too have no problem with this style of lettering. On the ones which were added at a later date, they always made a mistake with unit designation in proper military German. "4./ FJR 2" is textbook perfect.that is the way it was written as the 4th Kompanie of Fallschirmjäger Regiment 2. It could also have correctly said "I/ FJR 2" for the 1st Bataillon, of which the 4th Kompanie belonged to. Another thing which convinced me is that very few know which FJ units marked their gear, a practice that stopped in 1940 and with the formation of FJR2. Usually when the stampings are faked this is overlooked. The final selling point is that the wear on the stamp is consistant with the wear on the maker mark and the leather overall. Have seen alot wear the stamp was too new.

Willi

[reif40]

Unit markings

Yes I would have liked to have been the owner of that buckle/tab myself. My question is this: is it common to find unit marked tabs/belts? What would clearly designate a unit marking as a fake?

[Kurt Doench]

For Wehrmacht buckles, it is rather uncommon to find unit markings, making these more desirable.

Fakers might not (yet) quite be up to the marking regulations laid down at the time. Within regiments, the numbering was company (in latin numerals followed by a full stop), then a slash followed by the regimental designation. As far as I have read and know, Batalion nos. were not usually recorded. Batalions were denominated in Roman numerals, which might have caused some confusion, as in Prussian and Reichsheer stamping guidelines items of uniform were to be stamped - after the unit designation - with a category of the condition of the garment or piece of equipment, again in Roman numerals, i.e. I for a newly-issued item, II for one used before but still excellent, going down to IIII to denote an item that was to be mustered out. "Four" was put in the unusual form of "IIII", instead of "IV", so that successive stamps could be added during the lifetime of a piece of equipment.

Karl

[Marc verstraete]

LW buckles with unit marked taps are not really hard to find when you look for them. There are some at every major show. Mostly they are the early type drop tail eagles ones and are generally well worn.
Good original examples always have a nice aged patina and sometimes the unit marks are crossed of and re-stamped on top of the old marking or on the other side of the tap. The marking been on the underside of the tap or on the top in not criteria to determine the fakes. Original buckles can have the markings on both side of the tab. Fake patina on leather is very hard to do and ones you have seen an original unit marked tab you will never get fooled by a fake one. I have not seen a convincing fake patina yet.
Steel buckles with unit markings are much harder to find.
Of course the most desirable are the ones from flying fighter or bomber units, the paratroopers, the Herman Goering Pz div.
The buckle presented above in this post was a really fine and rare original example that I also would have liked to acquire.
Weimar army period buckles taps are generally always unit marked, as are most of the NSFK buckles tabs. There are some rare army unit marked buckles to.
Marking the tabs with unit markings was a remain of the imperial army tradition and despaired with time during the III Reich and stopped to exist during the war.
The atached photo shows the first and 2 model buckle with markings on both sides of the tabs
Marc

[Gene]

LBA marking on top, yes. But unit markings I have only seen on the back.