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**Sergey** · 04-30-2002, 04:54 AM

SS belt buckle

I have aluminium ss belt buckle. I dont Think that it is original but I seen it only once. What can you say about this belt buckle? What is the fake?http://rtp4.narod.ru/index.html

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 04-30-2002, 08:17 AM

Assmann Buckle

For a start, it's a start ! Thank You Sergey for this !
My call will not be final since with anything very new or rare I have to handle the item myself before saying original or fake for sure.

But as of today, and with everything I know so far, this SS Buckle is original and rare!! If fakers from East Europe were not always present in my mind and putting constantly on the market new unbelievable fakes, I would say right now original, rare and very good.

So, let's assume the buckle is, like I believe original since there is so far very few known original specimen of this exact buckle, and I know who has them. I know also the owner of the original die and none of them will ever let a faker take a cast of their buckle or loan the die. So, there is very few chances this buckle been fake, but rather one of the very few originals made by Assmann in aluminum. There is two kind: this one with the so called "Assmann Prototype catch", and another one with the regular aluminum catch (so the back of the buckle looks like any regular SS EM Buckle in aluminum). None is marked (is your ?) and maker's relation was established by:
- This catch is Assmann
- Prongs are Assmann
- Original die is marked by Assmann

The only surprising thing is that the buckle shows damage/wear on it. There is no reports of this buckle been worn by SS soldiers, so I will be interested to know how it ends up like that. Maybe you can give me more info on the history of it.

If anytime you want to sell it, please know that I am your buyer

**Sergey** · 04-30-2002, 01:50 PM

Belts buckle

Ok. I’ll tell you a history of this belts buckle. I bought it in one Moscow military shop. I paid $150. The seller didn’t know what is this. He thought that it is a copy. I also didn’t know nothing about this belts buckle, but it construction looked as original and was very difficult for fake. I liked it. The seller told me that he bought this belts buckle from one man, who found it at his country house.
I think this belts buckle is unworn. It was keeping for a long time in bad conditions. When I bought it, it was very dirty. I cleaned its backside from earth and rust (I Think it was lie together with iron for a long time). But before me somebody cleaned it.
All Russian specialists say that they didn’t see it before or says that it fake. And somebody says that it never issued.
Nobody knows how these rare belts buckle appeared in Russia. What literature can you advise to me.

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 04-30-2002, 02:42 PM

Sergey,

I know that like myself English language is not your native one. So, let me ask you some specifications first:
-When you say "Nobody knows how these rare belts buckle appeared in Russia" do you mean there is several of them or it is just a writing mistake (your been right now the only one if I refer to your first message) ?
-If the seller was thinking it was a fake, $150 seems pretty high since fake SS Buckles from East Europe in their steel version are sold around $10 in Russia. There is still only very few fakes in aluminum in your country, those been more expensive.

To be back to your post, I will tend to believe you are right in assuming it was never been worn. Only yourself can explain why it was damaged like that, but your explanation could be right. Why it was never been issued ? Like the "Gau Essen" SS Buckles. Rejected by SS authorities for whatever reason, and this is the reason why they are very rare. Just few were made as sample and stayed in Assmann warehouse or at the SS acceptance facility until someone took them as war trophee and brought back home, which is probably what happened with this one.

Right now, the only book I know where you can see two original exemple (one is the exact same buckle as your) as well as the die is the latest Angolia's book "Belt Buckles and Brocades Of the 3rd Reich" page 218 to 220.

Since there is very few of those, a lot of collectors don't even know they exist, and so will discard it right away as fake.

Anyway, As I said, if you want to sell it, I'm your man

Here is a photo picturing a common fake of this type

Attached Files

fakerot.jpg (40.0 KB, 818 views)

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 04-30-2002, 02:43 PM

..and back of it

Of course those two photos are showing a FAKE buckle

Attached Files

fakerotb.jpg (41.3 KB, 815 views)

**Sergey** · 05-01-2002, 02:18 AM

Belt buckle

Hallo. When I say the seller thought that it is fake, I say incorrect. More correct say that the seller has doubts in it. And he sold it as original ordinary type ss belt buckle.
I agree with you, most probably this belt buckle brought some soldier as spoils. Every Russian soldier brought at home something spoils. My grandfather, for example, brought Hungarian pistol. Sometimes, you can buy very interesting thing, if its owner don’t know what is this. My friend once bought luftwaffe cup as shaving glass

And finally, when many specialists say me that this type was never issued they called some books. I remember that one of them called book “SS-regalia”. But I have never read this book.
How much pieces of this belt buckle were issued?

Sorry for my English it is not very good.

**Frentebro** · 05-01-2002, 05:15 AM

Bonjour, JP!

Glad to see you have your own domain here now!

Re high prices on fakes: i recall one of the members of the German & SS Buckle forums was selling a standard aluminum SS EM fake (as such) for about $150....why, i don't know.....

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 05-01-2002, 08:28 AM

Sergey,
SS Regalia is not at all a so called "reference book". Even if I have it and shows nice original SS items of various kind, it is devoted to give you a rough idea about what was used by the SS and the overall look of it. A "reference book" will select a specific subject and will try to show any aspect of it, including variants and weird originals known (at least up to the date of printing). Very few authors really take the time to perform true research and print their book faster to earn money faster as well, even if information in it is not accurate, incomplete or even showing a real fake !!

Anyway, as I said before, the widely diffused book where you can find this buckle is the one listed above, and even if I do not consider at all this book as an ultime or very accurate reference book, it is still the most interesting right now on the buckle subject.

To answer your question, your buckle IF original (and like I said I strongly believe IT IS) is the 4th known. There is 3 other ones all in European collections and in mint condition. Your been the only one damaged and recently found. All three others are in those collections since more than 25 years.

I will take this oportunity to add for all readers that the internet brought us an unbelievable amount of new information or buckles known to exist. Before the internet we could reference buckles (SS or others) only by looking at well known collections, museums or available documentation. So, a lot of items been in private hands as a non collectible item were totally unknown. With the advance of the internet, and with more and more persons connected to it, even not collectors, we are now able to locate several of those, more and more every day, and in such increasing our knowledge or changing our vision. A good example is this buckle, another been Overhoff steel EM SS Buckles marked RZM 36/43 SS : even one of the greatest collectors I know, Marc Verstraete, who collects German buckles since forever was like myself, which means never saw one before last month. And within a month 3 poped in collector hands, with two for sale by them since not a great interest for belt buckles. The one I bought was even in the collector hands since over 20 years! But, without the internet, those buckles will have remained unknown by any author since these buckles are not part of big collections or other sources cited above for reference, so never been referenced.
So maybe we will find more of very rare buckles, which will still remain very rare but in greater number (did you know there is also since last year 3 known SS Officer's prototype and no longer only 2 - third one been even on prototype SS Brocade ? ), and at least our hope to find one is not extinguished.

Sergey, your English is very fine (at least for me since I am French from France and I just try my best to write and read shakespeare language !!) and you will never have problem with me.

Please, could you please tell me if your buckle has any marking on it, since the 3 others do not have any ?

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 05-01-2002, 08:50 AM

Dave,
The fake buckle you are talking about was not in aluminum but in steel since we are talking about the fake SS EM marked RZM 155/43 SS. Reason was because the seller bought it for this price, as well as many dealers at the MAX when this fake was introduced and sold as left overs of the Red Army Museum (sic).
What dealers bought was sold very quickly with a sufficient profit, but the seller found out it was a fake and didn't want to scr*w someone else, so kept the fake buckle, noted any difference with an original, and put for sale the fake buckle on his list for what he paid for, but not listed as original like you said, but as what it really is: fake.
First it was listed at $200, recently was $150 (so a net loss of $50). The reason is very simple, and when I talked to him I can only agree with him. Right now nobody sells this fake as such, and even some well known dealers continue to buy and sell it, even in good faith. So price is always more than $200 anyway.
So, as the seller said, if one wants to study its conception or include it in a book as a very nice fake, $150 is still less than minimum $200 from someone else, which makes sense (at least to me).
Of course, other steel fakes from East Europe or even some aluminum ones can be bought real cheap at lot of places, but not this one which is made like the fake aluminum SS Officer marked 36/40 (not 36/39) to drag more profit per unit rather than per volume

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