Meyer und Franke SA

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Norton

Thankyou for adding to the thread by showing your RZM 1 "Red Cross" buckle. Attached are images of a RZM 1 DJ.

Jean-Pierre

You have raised an interesting question. If we are to compare the SA buckles by their claw arrangements, then there is no relationship or correlation whatsoever. As you so rightly say, the nickle silver on brass SA which has the RZM 1 mark, displays sharpened claws, whilst the brass SA which has no RZM 1 mark, displays blunt tip claws (with notches to the claw shaft).

As I originally mentioned, I think that this specific design SA is elusive and quite hard to find. It is a very distinct style of eagle and as such, I have always associated it with M u F, irrespective of differing claws. Certainly with SA buckles, I think that it is not unusual to find two identical boxes with differing pins, pin shrouds and claws.

Regards,

David

Thanks David! I am glad you also posted this marked DJ with that particuliar catch since it is also a distinct feature I was looking for. I will let Ric post photo of his SA with (I believe) same catch but also same blunt tip claws (with notches to the claw shaft). If the catch is confirmed to be the exact same between your buckles (your DJ and Ric SA), then the next association (claws) which was already made will link without a doubt the marked DJ buckle to your unmarked SA (what I am calling evidence by ricochet). Hopefully we will be able to reach that point.

As a personnal note, if Meyer und Franke is confirmed to have produced all three buckles (2 SA and the DJ), I will later be able to confirm without a doubt your statement "it is not unusual to find two identical boxes with differing pins, pin shrouds and claws".

Thanks again!

[Ric Ferrari]

....will let Ric post photo of his SA with (I believe) same catch but also same blunt tip claws (with notches to the claw shaft). If the catch is confirmed to be the exact same between your buckles (your DJ and Ric SA), then the next association (claws) which was already made will link without a doubt the marked DJ buckle to your unmarked SA (what I am calling evidence by ricochet). Hopefully we will be able to reach that point.

Hello JP,

here's reverse of my SA bearing same blunt tip claws (with notches to the claw shaft) as David's, but not the same catch.

Best

Ric

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

but not the same catch.

! Again ...

[David North]

Jean-Pierre

What are you looking for ?

Regards,

David

[Chad Williams]

Hi David
great thread, I would like to add my RZM 1 HJ
I have a few other unmarked RZM 1 buckles, please let me know if you wish me to add those as well.
Chad

[Chad Williams]

2

2

[Chad Williams]

3

3

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Jean-Pierre

What are you looking for ?

Regards,

David

I try to find a detail which could link without a doubt your buckle 3a / 4 / 5 (which is not marked but has distinctive marks on its prongs) to any of the other marked RZM 1 buckle posted i this thread. The buckle Ric posted has also those distinctive marks on its prongs but has a catch similar to your other buckle. Unfortunately similar but not exact same. So once again not of use for me!
In other words I want to find a detail, no matter what this detail is, which could ascertain without a doubt your unmarked SA buckle 3a / 4 /5 and the unmarked SA buckle Ric has posted are made by the exact same maker as a marked RZM 1 buckle (SA or else). It will help my research for another buckle I will introduce later if I can find this detail.

[Stu W]

Another RZM 1 HJ

Hi Guys,

I too have a nickel HJ RZM 1 buckle. Here are some photos. I thought that RZM 1 was Ferdinand Hoffstatter. I got that from an RZM list here...

http://www.antiqueswords.com/Rzm.htm

It would appear that I am incorrect. There is no M/ designation before the 1 on my buckle so does that mean another company had the 1 originally?

Kind regards,
Stu

[Stu W]

reverse

rev

[Stu W]

Mm

mm

[David North]

Chad

"Unmarked" RZM 1 buckles ?? Yes please !!

Jean-Pierre

Noted and I may be able to help more in a few months time.

Stu

First series RZM codes as a rule of thumb, correlate with the M1 list.

Regards,

David

[Ric Ferrari]

David, Chad,

may you please check if among your buckles by Meyer u. Franke SA, there are some with this distinctive early post prongs assembly ?
I think a positive answer would offer another evidence for JP's research.

Best

Ric

[Stu W]

Thanks

Chad

"Unmarked" RZM 1 buckles ?? Yes please !!

Jean-Pierre

Noted and I may be able to help more in a few months time.

Stu

First series RZM codes as a rule of thumb, correlate with the M1 list.

Regards,

David

Hi David,

Thank's for clarifying. I learn something new every day here.

Best,
Stu

[Chad Williams]

David
I misspoke before, I have other KMF buckles, and some are MIS marked.. sorry for the confusion..here are the pics for comparison

first up is a solid nickel buckle marked RZM 119 which should be marked RZM UE 119!
Chad