Unknown(???) Third Reich Belt buckle.

[TP Alexander]

I had this on the Tony Barto SS Forum back in August of last year and didn't really get any answers or knowledgeable opinions at that time. Ric Ferrara suggested that I put it back on here, the appropriate place, where people more intimately acquainted with belt buckles might be able to help.
First, a little background. I've had this buckle for 15 years. My friend, who was a collector of the old school, had it for the previous 30 years. He only bought from veterans. American gunshows back then had a discriminatory policy towards TR militaria and there were VERY FEW military shows, so he wasn't in a position to buy many items at gunshows anyhow.
I believe this is a SA/SS Fliegersturm belt buckle. Opinions are welcome and I am not the type to take offense.
Let the fur fly.
Thanx,
Tim

[TP Alexander]

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[regiment739]

If turns out original I would be interested to know who the makers mark is

[Ric Ferrari]

If turns out original I would be interested to know who the makers mark is

Ben,

have you already seen the same maker mark on a WH buckle as well ?

Ric

[regiment739]

Ben,

have you already seen the same maker mark on a WH buckle as well ?

Ric

Hi Ric, no mate, it would be of interest to me as I am still researching the M4 makers list and other makers, I have not found any new makers marks for quite a while now so if this was a genuine buckle it would give me a few crumbs to go on

[David North]

Ric

Before I "dip my toe in the water" on this buckle, by precedence of awareness, I would be most interested in your comments.

Regards,

David

[Ric Ferrari]

Ric

Before I "dip my toe in the water" on this buckle, by precedence of awareness, I would be most interested in your comments.

Regards,

David

David,

here's what I said to Tim by PM :

" I'm not able to certify it as repro or original one neither. For sure many repros of such buckle surface the market but mainly with the Swastika without a circle.
On Angolia's book at page 222 another one exactly like yours is showed (top), but I can assure the one showed below is a repro."

Ric

[David North]

Ric

Many thanks.

This is an interesting buckle and of course, the "propeller" buckles are now heavily and easily faked in both forms - with swastika and without swastika. In addition, the fakes appear with a range of boxes and a variety of affixing devices, to include also, a touch of silver solder on the obverse.

I have always thought that the buckle is an early NS related "flying association" type and I have never really supported the fanciful SA/SS Fliegersturm notion.

What has really baffled me was Tim confirming that the buckle has been known for around 45 years.

The emblem on the buckle looks perfectly fine (as do the fakes), although I am somewhat uncomfortable with the way that the propeller is affixed. In theory and by the buckle supposedly being "early", the emblem could have been used on any type of box. I do not like this brass box at all and actually, it is very similar to one that I normally associate as used on fakes.

I have attached some images for comparison.

Regards,

David

[David North]

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