HJ leaders buckle

[xtruckerx]

So... Still any proof to these m4/116 hj leaders buckle? I have found many collectors/dealers say they're authentic. Some of them saying the reason a bunch showed up at the same time is because a small hoard of them must of been found in a factory or building. To me they look fantastic and imho think they're fine.

[patrick99]

Hello all,

Is there any news about HJ leader M4/116.
What I read is that the opinions are divided.
Nobody can proof its fake an d nobody can see it's genuine
Please need some comment...

[Wickie]

I really don‘t know why this buckle is still in discussion. The situation is clear.

They appeared about 20 years ago, together with other fake HJ leaders buckles (Unmarked, M4/22, M4/46,...). Some were casted in lower quality, some were stamped in very good quality.
Of course every collector knew that these buckles were fakes, because they didn‘t appear for 55 years, and from one moment to the other they flooded the marked.
Really nobody could be fooled by the old „hoard found“ story, because this was the explanation for every fake at that time.
Now, 20 years later, some collectors bought them for high prices and dealers sold them for high prices, it is a „maybe yes, maybe not“ fake.

If you like this buckle the situation is quite simple, all you have to do is wait for another 20 years. Then it will be a 100% original buckle.

You can restart this discussion every few years, but the situation will not change. It is a fake. They were sold by the same dealers as the 155/43 SS buckle fakes.

Regards,
Christian

[sutka]

we need photografic evidence

[Guido L.]

we need photografic evidence

I'm trying to imagine what such photographic evidence might look like!
Can you give me an example?

[wilhelm Saris]

Christian, you are right. I cannot believe they come back every some decades and a number of collectors do not believe what is being said!
In the earliest stage of being at the market there were minor mistakes visible. The "producers" listened well to all the comments and after a
short while the buckle returned, with a "new face".
Before I wrote my extended article about HJ-buckles for the "Military Advisor" in early 2001 the numer 116 had not shown up yet, as far as
I remember.
Forums and the Internet are the wrongdoers. Fakers "listen" to that and make their corrections. I have learned one should not write books as
then good quality reproductions will appear after a short while (this is the case with enameled wall signs for example).

If I read about "hoard", I know there is a lot wrong about that! This is going on since the early 1970's with other items. Faked in those years
and by now they are originals.

[wilhelm Saris]

By the way: according to RZM descriptions the stamp in the leather
is not correct in my opinion. The stamp is difficult to see.

What is different with the stamps mentioned in the RZM manufacturing
regulations I will not mention, as then this also will be "renewed" by
the fakers/reproducers.