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    #1

    HJ leaders buckle

    Hello,

    I need some opinions on this HJ leaders belt buckle before I purchase it. The buckle is marked on the back tab with RZM M4/116. Is there such a RZM maker and if so the makers name? All opinions welcome on this one.

    thanks John
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    #2
    front side

    front side of HJ
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      #3
      HJ leaders

      HJ leaders
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        #4
        Hello John,

        There isn't a lot of knowledge on this buckle but perhaps Chad may be able to chime in here although Chad's expertise is more towards the DJ/HJ box buckle.

        On what you have presented via the photos, I do like what I see. The construction of the buckle is in par with this type buckle. The M4/116 belongs to the rarely seen maker Camille Bergmann & Co. of Gablonz. Other than that, I do not have any other info on this manufacturer.

        To assist you further in your decision, please do a search within the buckles forum on "HJ Leader" or "M4/116". This question has previosuly been asked.

        Comment

          #5
          thank you

          Dan,

          I appreciate the opinion and the information on this HJ buckle and will check it out.

          thank you!

          Anyone else I could use the input!

          thanks, John

          Comment

            #6
            John,

            I agree with Dan on this one. A very nice and hard to find RZM code. The majority of the HJ leader buckles were RZM M4/122 and a few were M4/119 in steel.

            Bill

            Comment

              #7
              Hello John

              I have the same maker Hj fuhrer buckle made of cupal. I see no problems in Your buckle, nice original in my opinion

              Some buckle collectors dont trust this marking m4/116 but it is no evidence that buckles with m4/116 marking are copies..

              PS. Hello Bill! How are You ??

              best regards
              Piotr

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                #8
                Some buckle collectors dont trust this marking m4/116 but it is no evidence that buckles with m4/116 marking are copies..
                Any evidence that they are original?

                I talked with many old collectors, and I looked through old sales lists, but it seems that the M4/116 marked buckles appeared the first time in 2001/2. Strange or not?
                And they appeared in large quantities....

                The M4/116 number was very late issued, I would expect a zinc or steel buckle like the M4/119.

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                  #9
                  thanks all

                  I would like to thank everyone who gave an opinion to the HJ leaders buckle. I'm go'in for it, looks nice. John

                  Comment

                    #10
                    John, may I ask how much the seller ask for this very questionable buckle?

                    Comment

                      #11
                      HJ Leader belt M4/116

                      I think this is the right thread to share with you the pics of a HJ Leader belt I recently got and which seems to be an original one I.M.H.O. Your opinion are welcome. Thanks
                      Val








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                        #12
                        Val, I can just say it again, all M4/116 are extremly questionable! And I think that marking on the belt is highly questionable as well....

                        Christian

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                          #13
                          I too have a heavy plated original rzm 4/116 hitler youth leader buckle. It definitely shows its age but looks great. I don't know what all of the controversy is about with this particular maker.

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                            #14
                            These 116 buckles are very well made but they only started showing up about 15-20 years a go. I flipped through about 15 years of Manions catalogues from the 80's and early 90's and never found a 116 for sale. You will have no problem finding one for sale now.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Just to add John's buckle (#1-2-3) is a certified repro, now we can say it for sure.

                              As a note you usually find them unmarked

                              Ric

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