East German Police buckles

[SCHUPO]

Gentlemen,

I asked this same question on the DDR Forum and I would like to also ask it of the belt buckle collectors here. I am not a belt buckle collector per-se but I have an interest in police buckles.

I would like to revisit the concept of early East German Polizei box style belt buckles and see if anyone has any period regulations for wear.

It seems clear that very early East German police wore de-Nazified NS Zeit uniforms and equipment under Soviet occupaiton. No DDR or military existed in 1945-48. From photographs, one can see what appear to be de-Nazified box belt buckles that have had the centers reworked to remove the swastika as well as open frame buckles in wear. New MdI (Polizei) regulations in October 1948 established the blue East German Volkspolizei uniform and put an end to most of the reworked police equipment over time. Photographs and illustrations seem to show a black cross belt being worn with an open frame buckle.

When did the pebbled box buckle with a police star and tri-color shield begin to be worn? Does anyone have regulations establishing the establishment date of this buckle or exactly who was authorized to wear it?

Photographs show this police box buckle was worn by NCOs while Officers continued to wear the open frame (Officer style) buckle. Photographs also show both the new Polizei box buckle and open frame buckles worn by NCOs during the late 1940s and early 1950s. So, was this buckle worn by both DGP (Deutsche Grenz-Polizei) and DVP (Deutsche Volks-Polizei) NCOs with the blue uniform? Photographs seem to indicate this.

Was this East German Police box belt buckle with the star and tri-color shield also worn with the new uniform established in October 1954? Officers continued to wear the open frame buckle with both the green VP and brown DGP uniforms and NCOs wore a box buckle that is seen in photographs. Was this the buckle with the star?

It seems that some KVP (Kasernierten Volks-Polizei) that evolved into the NVA (Nationale Volks-Armee) wore a plain box buckle without a star or emblem. Any regulations for this buckle? It seems that the new East German buckle with the hammer/compass Staatswappen was not adopted until 1960. Anyone with regulations establishing the date of the new DDR buckle with Staatswappen that was apparently worn by almost everyone?

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[SCHUPO]

28 views and no thoughts on this buckle?

I would be happy to send someone an email picture to post if that would help. Here is a link to an image of the buckle in question.

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums...2/m/9970061305

[Kurt Doench]

Hi Schupo,

The best published source is Klaus Walther, Uniformeffekten (2 vols.), covering both the military and the MdI forces. Walther gives years of introduction and period of wear for the early buckles and lists which organisation wore what kind of buckle when. Not only for the tri-colour within a star buckly, but also for the gold or silver neutral buckles. He does not cite any primary sources, however it all seems plausible. Don't know if anyone around the forums has ever done any archival research on these early GDR buckles.
The Walther books would be your best bet, short of trawling the archives yourself. Vol. 2, dealing with the military, is still easily available (at least in Germany), but getting a copy of vol. 1 (MdI), which is the one you want, is quite tough!

Hope this will set you off, and sorry I don't have the time to read through all of vol. 1 myself to post the info you are interested in.

Best regards,
Karl

[SCHUPO]

Karl,

Thank you for the reply. I am not certain that Walther is quite correct in this regard but his books seem to be the only secondary source and that is what is often quoted. I wish he had cited regulations or primary sources.

My problem is that primary sources in the form of photographs in period MdI publications such as the 1965 book, "Die Deutsche Volkspolizei" show the star and tri-color shield box buckle in wear by some regular VP personnel with the green 1954 uniform. Other publications, including a 1958 VP Taschenkalender, seem to also show this buckle worn by VP NCOs in the uniform plates. I am just trying to understand these inconsistencies with Walther.

[Chad Williams]

here is a link to purchase the above mentioned book on amazon used..
http://www.amazon.com/Uniformeffekte...6099132&sr=1-7

if interested..Chad

[SCHUPO]

Thank you Chad. It seems Volume 1 is unavailable and no longer in stock.

[Kurt Doench]

Hi Schupo,

For the early period, Walther describes and illustrates three types of buckle simultaneously in use with the "bewaffnete Organe" (armed services) of the MdI from 1949 to 1954 (p. 32), i.e.:
(a) Russian-style domed box buckle with the tri-colour and star ("VP star")
(b) blank silver-coloured pebbled buckle
(c) "German style" VP-star buckle.

He goes on to say that the simultaneous use of these buckles until 1954 was due to supply shortages, that (b) was being worn by the DVP until 1955/56 and (c) remained a regulation item for the DVP until 1960.

Unless I am missing something, this does not seem to contradict what you have seen in the period photos you mention.

Best wishes,
Karl

Karl,

Thank you for the reply. I am not certain that Walther is quite correct in this regard but his books seem to be the only secondary source and that is what is often quoted. I wish he had cited regulations or primary sources.

My problem is that primary sources in the form of photographs in period MdI publications such as the 1965 book, "Die Deutsche Volkspolizei" show the star and tri-color shield box buckle in wear by some regular VP personnel with the green 1954 uniform. Other publications, including a 1958 VP Taschenkalender, seem to also show this buckle worn by VP NCOs in the uniform plates. I am just trying to understand these inconsistencies with Walther.

[SCHUPO]

Karl,

Thank you very much for the clarification from Walther. The information about supply shortages seems to explain the use of the plain box buckle as well as the tri-color and star. I think the "wearing out period" could also explain the continuance of these different buckles after the introduction of the generic buckle with the compass & hammer Staatswappen.

Thanks for helping me answer my questions.