hj leaders buckle??????

[stuart a.]

hi found this on a local militaria web site and was wondering if its good
any help is much appreciated
stu

[stuart a.]

close up of mm

[mark vis]

I saw this one too and would like to know what people think??

[buckle1]

A good buckle w/a somewhat scarce RZM number.

Bill

[Ron Weinand]

Yes, I have seen this code before on an HJ Leader Buckle. Not the normal M4/22.
JMO,
Ron Weinand

[Wickie]

A question to the advanced collectors. Has anybody ever seen this marking before the year 2001?

Thanks,
Christian

[stuart a.]

so a good one ?????????

[buckle1]

Christian, An interesting question. I have seen the 119 mark which was usually on all steel buckles for a number of years-certainly before 2001. Have I seen the 115 before then?? I can't ay for sure. The construction looks good but looking at the width of the catch holding the prong bar I may need to re-think this. What do you think.? I know they are making some very good copies of this buckle now. Is this one of them?

Bill

[Wickie]

I don't have a problem with the M4/119 marked buckles, but I'm quite unsure about the 116's. I saw it the first time about 5 or 6 years ago, I can't remember when it was exactly. But I know very well where it was, it was sold by a German dealer who had lots of fakes, including some HJ leaders (M4/22, M4/46 and unmarked). This is why I always had doubts about the 116 marking.
And -if I recall correctly- the M4/116 marked buckles I know were made in Nickel silver. I would say that's unusally, since the marking 116 must be issued during the war.

I asked many collectors, looked through old dealers catalogs from the 70's and the 80's but I not able to find a 116 marked HJ leader.

I'm always interested in other opinions!

Christian

[Mr Piter]

hello

I have a Hj leader buckle marked M4/116 it has great detail and it is made of cupal . unfortunately I have no info what firm made that buckle.

We need to remember that there was a lot of little manufactures that made buckles, badges and other stuff and use RZM codes that are uknown for us.

In my opinion it is original one, if it is a copy why it doesnt appear in vast numbers on the market ? And why it is made of cupal, when it is easy to made copies of zinc, aluminium ..

best regards
Piotr

[David North]

This buckle is not at all within my area of collecting, however and rather similar to Christian, I have a somewhat uneasy feeling about this HJ Leaders.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...t=RZM+M4%2F116

Regards,

David

[Wickie]

I have no problem with the maker in general, the M4/116 can be found on original PL buckles (in zinc).

That the buckles are good detailed is no longer an argument for beeing original.

Piotr, I'm sorry but I don't the last part of you answer. Cupal is not that expensive and probably easier to stamp than zinc. So why should the fakes not be made in cupal? Why is it easier to make copies in zinc and aluminium?
And as mentioned before, the I one I had in hand was not made in Cupal, it was Nickel silver.

By the way I know a lot of fakes which I've seen just one time in my life, some other I know just from pictures. So, not every fake must flood the market!

Christian

[Mr Piter]

hello

I understand what You are saying Christian, anyway if it is a copy somebody made a super nice example with good ageing .

Maybe Marc could help us in this topic

best regards
Piotr