SA flying units buckle

[Mr Piter]

hello

I have found interesting buckle for sale, but I have some doubts.
The buckle is made of brass, it has strange catch, what do You think about that?
The roller bar and prongs has been replaced and are not original thats for sure. Have You ever seen such example, I mean winged propeller on such brass box with that strange catch?

Thank You very much for help

Best regards
Piotr

[David North]

Piotr

Perhaps and with all due respect, you should be a tad careful about this buckle. I am by the way a little uncomfortable in relation to your label of SA flying. NS of course, however SA or SS is open to discussion.

The odd thing though, is that I have seen some very bizarre examples of this buckle and some, being decidedly amateur in their construction. It is almost as though some of the early examples of this buckle were made by cottage industries, from Imperial or early Weimar stocks.

I do not like for one moment the roller bar and claws on the buckle that has been shown. More than likely a modern replacement, as the buckle does appear excavated.

Perhaps some of the boys who specialise within Imperial buckles could comment on the box construction.

In the meantime, here is an oddity that I hold.

Regards,

David

[David North]

2

[buckle1]

There are a number of things about this buckle that don't sit right with me. 1. The catch-It looks as if it is riveted on but does not show on the front. 2. the prong bar is not anything I have ever seen and is VERY suspect. 3. The pinkish color looks like artificial aging was attempted 4. there are no pins, prongs or? to indicate how the front piece is attached. It could be sweated on but on this type of buckle I would find that somewhat suspect. Finally there are a number of fakes of this style buckle out there, both w/the swastika and without.
Bill

[David North]

Bill

I agree with most of what you say, however I wonder if this buckle is worthy of a little more discussion. The buckle is probably excavated (aka ground dug) and more than likely, the original pin, pin shroud and claw arrangement had rusted and become detached. The set now in place is in my opinion, a clumsy modern replacement. As with so many of these excavated buckles, I suspect that it has enjoyed the benefit of an acid wipe in an attempt to restore the box. As always, a chemical reaction ensues within the brass composition, resulting in a strange orange to pink leeching which cannot be rectified.

If you look closely on the obverse of the box, the profile of the rivets which hold the catch in place, can just bee seen.

As to how the propeller is held in place, then I can only guess the same as you, however no visible means of support does not worry me in the least.

There are a few points though which I find interesting. Who wore this buckle and why are there a few known, which appear to have been made from Imperial boxes ? Although the buckle is heavily faked, why make up a fake on a box that would stand out like the proverbial sore thumb ?

Bill - do you recognise this style of box from your Imperial collection ?

Regards,

David

[Mr Piter]

Hello Bill and David

Thanks for Your intrest.

The buckle is 100% ground dug example, and as I wrote before it has replaced the roller bar and prongs.

Propeller seems to be original and box is also original, but I havent seen such box ever before..

If for this buckle was no regulations so this could be good one.

I dont think that somebody would fake it, not in such weird box.

best regards
Piotr

[dogtagman]

look at the black stains around the propeller, this happens when you are soldering brass. So i would say it was made not too long ago, maybe the box is a ground dug item and the propeller was atached to it just some days ago? Propellers condition doesnt fit to the box condition too.

How are the measurements of the box? Looks like it´s not the normal size?


And the last point, you surely know that the polish guys are realy good fakers so if this thing is from a flea market or something like this, I wouldn´t consider it as a real one.

[lach470]

Even if some parts of the buckle are authentic....I would pass simply because it's been "messed with". Real ones are SUPER rare....I would assume the price tag on this baby would be significant. Not worth it in my book. Best of luck!

Cheers!

Rob