Announcement

**Gunther Beckman** · 04-02-2007, 12:25 PM

And I apologize for referring to your collecting of belt buckles as boring. For me it would be boring. I know we all have varying interests. To those who posted ill statements about Tom, if you really knew him, you wouldn't have made those statements.. Dealers provide a service. It's up to you to do your homework.

All the best..

Michael Wipf

**Gunther Beckman** · 04-02-2007, 01:16 PM

Tom Wittmann would not knowingly sell a reproduction item as authentic. And if the buyer feels he or she has purchased a reproduction item, it would be covered by Tom's guarantee. I have purchased a few questionable items in my day (not from Tom W.) and simply attribute this to the learning curve. I now have over a hundred reference books in my library. And I use them.. If there wasn't a degree of risk involved, what fun would it be?

All the best...

Michael Wipf

**keifer kahn** · 04-03-2007, 05:58 AM

All dealers do for me is supply me with an inventory of items to look at.

The rest is up to me, as i feel i have enough experience in my chosen areas to decide good from bad.If i feel i need a second opinion or im not sure, i call in other collectors to get their opinions.

As for Tom,Ive never purchased anything from him but he has always been very helpful in any questions i have asked.

**Larry Ploz** · 04-03-2007, 07:34 AM

Why don't you guys back off Tom Wittmann.. He has done more for this hobby than all of you put together could if you took the rest of your lives! Tom's main field of expertise is edged weapons and I'm sure he is just like me when it comes to belt buckles, why in the world would anybody want to collect belt buckles? Boring...

If one or two the buckles on his site are truly reproductions, then know for a fact, Tom will remove them. If he didn't respond to your email inquiries right away, that is because Tom has a life.. Militaria dealing is only a small percentage of what he is about. Tom, first and foremost, is a collector. Besides being an excellent author, Tom has several other business interests in NJ. He is a VERY busy man and is as honest as the day is long.... And he doesn't have time to waste defending himself on these Internet forums.

To call buckle collecting "boring" is a pretty bold statement being said on the buckle forum. Even though you retracted the statement later after further review.Why would anyone want to collect buckles??Its whatever catches your fancy.Maybe you don't care for it, but this is not the proper place to express your misguided opinions.

As for your second statement, it seems you know Wittman quite well or seem too. I have had two dealings with the man, one good and one average. No one walks on water, so would I deal with him again?? I really do not know.

Thanks for the enlightenment

Regards,
Larry

**fknorr** · 04-03-2007, 08:49 AM

I really love (not!) the mentality of some here to bash dealers for selling bad pieces. It is amazing to me. As stated, all dealers have had a piece pass through their hands either knowingly oraccidentally. It is a fact of life. Get over it.

It is also a fact of life that everyone cannot know everything about every aspect of the hobby. The dealer in question has been around forever, generally speaking has a pretty darned good reputation for his honesty and integrity...some of you feel the need to take him down a peg here publically though which is wrong...totally. I have done a few transactions w/the man and have always been satisfied. I have always done my homework too.

The amount of items these guys have for sale on their sites at any given time and the small amount of fake items that pass through their hands is minute when compared to a lot of the dealers who are known for their shady behavior. Detlev who is regarded as well as a "good guy" has had a few items pass through his hands. there is a forum out there that somehow keeps track of his stinkers and if you look at the years he has been in business, the amount of stuff he sells and the LOW number of fakes over that period of time, you'll see how (I believe) retarded it is of some of you to hurridly post one of these character assassination type threads...shame on you.

You people (a) need to buy more reference books before shelling out good money on some of this stuff and (b) do more homework/take more time before purchasing.

One of the people here even blamed Tom for the exchange rate, come on.

**panzerlord1** · 04-03-2007, 09:41 AM

..

Originally posted by David North View Post

Michael

If you read this thread carefully (and I very much doubt that you have), you will see that there have been collectors and to include myself of these "boring" buckles as you have so graciously and elegantly stated, who have backed Tom 100%. There are many on the forum who have been absolutely appalled by this thread.

Just for your information and to strike a balance, as a forum member I have personally apologised to Tom and also, I for one am suggesting to the Moderator that the thread should be erased.

Regards,

David

David

1) why do u feel the need to apologise for what others have writen????

2) why should the moderators remove this thread i have whitnessed first hand
a deal involving another collector on a bad fake, he is away in the states at the moment and i would imagine when he returns and reads these comments he will provide the evidence first hand backed with pictures and paperwork

watch this space

panzerlord

**behblc** · 04-03-2007, 09:41 AM

Tom Wittmann

I will funds permitting , this evening be buying an item from Tom Wittmann.
I mailed him asking about 2-3 times he has for sale - he replied quickly , and I think honestly regarding them - his answer were presented with manners giving the pros and cons. Extra jpegs were offerred , I declined these.
His reputation does seem to be good amongest members and users on this forum - given this and his answers to me I am quite willing to go ahead and do the deal with him.

Just my impressions on the man and his approach to me as a potential customer.

**panzerlord1** · 04-03-2007, 09:44 AM

....

Originally posted by Gunther Beckman View Post

And I apologize for referring to your collecting of belt buckles as boring. For me it would be boring. I know we all have varying interests. To those who posted ill statements about Tom, if you really knew him, you wouldn't have made those statements.. Dealers provide a service. It's up to you to do your homework.

All the best..

Michael Wipf

yes you should apologise it was a small minded comment, its one thing to back someone 100% thats your right!! But to attack some collectors passion is wrong period!!!!!

Panzerlord

**Gunther Beckman** · 04-03-2007, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by Larry Ploz View Post

To call buckle collecting "boring" is a pretty bold statement being said on the buckle forum. Even though you retracted the statement later after further review.Why would anyone want to collect buckles??Its whatever catches your fancy.Maybe you don't care for it, but this is not the proper place to express your misguided opinions.

As for your second statement, it seems you know Wittman quite well or seem too. I have had two dealings with the man, one good and one average. No one walks on water, so would I deal with him again?? I really do not know.

Thanks for the enlightenment

Regards,
Larry

Hi Larry,

When I made my posts yesterday, I certainly did not mean to insult or offend anyone. Actually, I was so upset about what was going on here that I had forgotten which forum this was. Every aspect of Imperial and Third Reich collecting can be extremely rewarding, I'm sure buckles are equally so.. Just never got into them..

All the best..

Michael Wipf

**panzerlord1** · 04-03-2007, 10:17 AM

comments

Originally posted by fknorr View Post

I really love (not!) the mentality of some here to bash dealers for selling bad pieces. It is amazing to me. As stated, all dealers have had a piece pass through their hands either knowingly oraccidentally. It is a fact of life. Get over it.

It is also a fact of life that everyone cannot know everything about every aspect of the hobby. The dealer in question has been around forever, generally speaking has a pretty darned good reputation for his honesty and integrity...some of you feel the need to take him down a peg here publically though which is wrong...totally. I have done a few transactions w/the man and have always been satisfied. I have always done my homework too.

The amount of items these guys have for sale on their sites at any given time and the small amount of fake items that pass through their hands is minute when compared to a lot of the dealers who are known for their shady behavior. Detlev who is regarded as well as a "good guy" has had a few items pass through his hands. there is a forum out there that somehow keeps track of his stinkers and if you look at the years he has been in business, the amount of stuff he sells and the LOW number of fakes over that period of time, you'll see how (I believe) retarded it is of some of you to hurridly post one of these character assassination type threads...shame on you.

You people (a) need to buy more reference books before shelling out good money on some of this stuff and (b) do more homework/take more time before purchasing.

One of the people here even blamed Tom for the exchange rate, come on.

why should this collector not be

for the cost of the exchange rate
if they have had to send something back because it were fake and they have a refund and loose money on the exchange rate that would pi.. me off big time.
like i have said i think we should give this collector the chance to post his pics and info before we stamp an end to this thread!!! Like i have said he is in the states at the moment and when he returns i will be contacting him to advise him to post them

Panzerlord

**Gunther Beckman** · 04-03-2007, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by panzerlord View Post

why should this collector not be

for the cost of the exchange rate
if they have had to send something back because it were fake and they have a refund and loose money on the exchange rate that would pi.. me off big time.
like i have said i think we should give this collector the chance to post his pics and info before we stamp an end to this thread!!! Like i have said he is in the states at the moment and when he returns i will be contacting him to advise him to post them

Panzerlord

Panzerlord,

I recently purchased an SA dagger from one of your more popular dealers in the UK, when it arrived, I discovered the scabbard had been repainted, so I got permission from the dealer and sent it back to the UK from the USA. He agreed that the scabbard had been repainted. Soooo, I lost the shipping, from and to the UK plus a $13.00 exchange rate penalty. I paid nearly $50.00 to wait two weeks and see a repainted scabbard. This is all part of the game. You win some, you loose some. But I got over it. Still wish I had my $50.00 back. What I learned: Ask LOTS of questions, ask for LOTS of images of the item before committing to buy. Especially if the item is over seas. If the dealer shows reluctance to comply with your requests, move on, there are other items out there. Other dealers too.

All the best..

Michael Wipf

**panzerlord1** · 04-03-2007, 11:07 AM

...

Originally posted by Gunther Beckman View Post

Panzerlord,

I recently purchased an SA dagger from one of your more popular dealers in the UK, when it arrived, I discovered the scabbard had been repainted, so I got permission from the dealer and sent it back to the UK from the USA. He agreed that the scabbard had been repainted. Soooo, I lost the shipping, from and to the UK plus a $13.00 exchange rate penalty. I paid nearly $50.00 to wait two weeks and see a repainted scabbard. This is all part of the game. You win some, you loose some. But I got over it. Still wish I had my $50.00 back. What I learned: Ask LOTS of questions, ask for LOTS of images of the item before committing to buy. Especially if the item is over seas. If the dealer shows reluctance to comply with your requests, move on, there are other items out there. Other dealers too.

All the best..

Michael Wipf

Michael

you have hit the nail on the head but i do feel that you should have had all the money back after all its not your fault the scabbard was repainted

panzerlord

**Gunther Beckman** · 04-03-2007, 11:34 AM

I agree, I would have appreciated my money back, but I will probably be dealing with this person again and hopefully we can make it up on a future deal.

Best..

MW

**David North** · 04-03-2007, 12:17 PM

An earlier contribution to this thread asked two questions to myself as... "(1) why do u (sic) feel the need to apologise for what others have writen (sic) ???? and (2) why should the moderators remove this thread..."

A reasonable brace of questions.

It has never been a past feature of this forum to indulge in this type of exchange, however the profile and quality of any forum is dictated by the profile and quality of the contributing members.

A large number of dealers sites and which I regularly visit, display for sale buckles which at their best are questionable and at their worst, are fakes. I make no complaint about this and really it is the nature of the beast. The critical feature however is when a fake buckle is being sold with utmost good faith by the dealer, rather than to intentionally deceive.

Tom Wittmann and in my opinion, is a highly respected dealer, author and authority on a subject matter that is not belt buckles. It is inconceivable that Tom Wittmann would sell this buckle in question, knowing that it was a fake. The buckle referred to is not even a clever or sophisticated fake and which gives more credence to the assumption that Tom Wittmann acted innocently and again, in utmost good faith.

Why though should there be such a focus and in parts, nasty and vitriolic attack on a dealer in isolation and who in my opinion has quite simply a premier reputation and is furthermore, not known for this type of behaviour.

Where do we start and where do we end ?

Perhaps there are those would would like to work through the alphabet on an A to Z basis and systematically expose all the fakes on all the sites.

I think not.

It was because of what I considered to be a grossly unfair focus and attack on one single dealer, that I as a regular contributor to the WA forum, felt the need to offer a personal and not a collective apology.

This form of singular isolation and again in my opinion, is not what this forum has ever adopted before and quite simply, I think that it gives us a very bad reputation. May I say also, that if this thread had been directed at one of the many other honest, fair and reputable dealers, then I would have reacted in exactly the same way.

I think that it is infra dig and does us no justice whatsoever to engage and waste our time on this type of thread and I truly hope that it is never repeated. This nonsense takes our eye of the ball and as such, I for one thought that the thread should have been deleted some time back. There are really more interesting aspects of collecting to discuss within this forum which I think is now a tad tarnished, than prattling on about a premier grade dealer who has made a mistake in again, utmost good faith.

Regards,

David

**Ssteve** · 04-03-2007, 12:38 PM

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