The Neutral Buckle

[KC1]

A new year discussion.

As has been discussed in the past on this forum, I am still stymied as to the origin of the "nuetral" buckle. Who, what, where, why was this produced? Were these buckles cast offs to be sold as private purchases; were they used in some capacity of the TR serices; when were they first used? Every time I think perhaps early post war something brings me back to question this theory.

I am curious to hear other colleagues thoughts and why.

Here is a recent addition of mine, a tabbed 1941 Schmolle & Comp steel buckle originally painted in black.

[KC1]

front

[KC1]

reverse

[KC1]

ears and prongs

[KC1]

tab

[regiment739]

Nice buckle Dan and with a dated tab, I have seen these in a variety of colours from black to green and I dont really know for sure the actual purpose of them. I was always told that the silver blanks were Condor Legion buckles. So if the they are a spill over from that campaign and got used later as stock dwindled? That is just a theory. Anyone else got any ideas on this or any books that explains them?

[regiment739]

Rear

[helmutderpa]

Same one

Hello guys, Happy New Year!

I got exactly the same buckle as Kirby, black painted with leather tab stamped Bruder Schneider Wien 1940.

I do not support the "Legion Condor" theory as these buckles were manufactured after the spanish war (1936-1939 or something like...).

Would it be possible to be Firemen buckle?

Simon

[KC1]

Ben / Simon,

Both Ben's and my buckle are of very similar construction traits (ears, catch). I do tend to agree with Simon that they are not specific to Condor but also does not eliminate them from being part of. I think there is something specific that these buckles were intended for but cannot find any documentation supporting this buckle. MOre investigation and discussion, I believe, are necessary in determining actual origin of this buckle.

Dan

[lach470]

Hi Dan...I agree...I also have a "blank" or "neutral" buckle that I purchased not too long ago from Jos.
I would love to learn more about the use of these buckles....but there isn't a whole lot of info out there. By the way....mine is a RZM marked aluminium.

If anyone else out there has theories or any info.....we'd love to hear about it!

Cheers!

Rob

[Wickie]

Hello collectors!

Well, I don't know exactly why the first buckle is dark painted and why it has tab. Just a few words about neutral buckles in general.
These neutral buckles were sold in the 30's (and of course before), the 70's and you can of course still buy them today. The descrpition was (and is) "neutral buckle".
Why it was worn? Because somebody needed a belt buckle!
How did they get them in the 30's? Well, highly probably like today, you go into a shop and buy it.

Members of the Legion Condor wore indeed a neutral buckle. But I have other photos with neutral buckles. Members of the Heer, firefighters from the 20's, a young boy, a group of Werkluftschutz.......

Regards,
Christian

[Guido L.]

Don't know for what purpose these neutral buckles are.

But my assumption with RZM marked and molded buckles (zinc or aluminium) is, that these are totally denazified HJ buckles.

@Rob: Is your aluminium buckle a M4/46 ?

@Dan: I wonder about the ears of your Schm******246;le buckle. They are different on my steel Schm******246;le Heer buckle (from 1940). Normally the makers used similar tools to produce several buckles (Heer, LW, SHD,.......). What do other members think?

Regards,
Guido

[KC1]

Christian,

Good hearing from you. (I need to talk to you privately at another time) My question is simple: you state, "why is the buckle dark painted and why it has a tab?" I believe you answered your own question if your theory is in fact truth.
But I ask you this, were all these buckles privately purchased? If you in fact have photos showing these buckles in wear via Heer, Luftwaffe, and other orgs, wouldn't you assume there was a specific principle for these buckles - perhaps transitional? Could these buckles be perhaps the equivalent of new soldiers coming into a training center (i.e., similar to Basic Training)without denomination towards there eventual skill set? Once trained in that Service (Army, Air Force, Navy, or Marine), they are then provided or requested to purchase that buckle. Just a theory but would like your response.
************************************************** ***
Guido,

Can you provide photos of another Schmole&Comp. You could be very well correct but I do not have another Schmole&Comp buckle to compare. Perhaps the tab was added at another time but I do know that these two have been together for a very long time.

Best Regards,

Dan

[Wickie]

Hi Dan,

when somebody came to the army he get his full equipment, including the belt buckle. I see no reason for any kind of transitional buckle.
I'm afraid the question about the Wehrmacht members who wore the neutral buckle can't be answered. Their are numerous similar questions, e.g. why had members of the Army an SA buckle or why are so many photos known with EM wearing an absolute unofficial single or double claw?!

I don't know why the LC wore sometimes a neutral buckle. Maybe because they had at the beginning a "uniform" without German insignias?!

Christian

[regiment739]

There are pictures of soldiers wearing these buckles in Peter Nash's book