Your opinions on this one, please

[Marc verstraete]

looks good to me becouse of a good feeling but I would be unable to say why. Very intrusting . I think this one will give JP some work for the next days.
Marc V.

[GJR100]

Hi Marc,

Will you be in Haiger next Thursday ? I could bring it with me for closer examination.

MfG,
Bart

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Hi Marc,
As I said you over the phone, it ALREADY made me think about it, but I am still 50/50 for several reasons.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Well, I have finished my work and I can safely say I really do not like this buckle. Maybe I am wrong, but it is well possible this one was made in England using one of the various Tony Oliver dies.

Anyway, I do no longer believe it could be an original.

[GJR100]

Hi Jean Pierre,

Pitty ...

Thanks any way for your comments.

Well, the only positive thing about it is that I bought it so long ago, it doesn't hurt in my wallet that hard ...

MfG,
Bart

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Bart,

It is not because "I" do not believe it is an original that for sure it is not!! (Look, Marc thinks it is an original, isn't he? So...)

As I said, this buckle as exactly shown here does not have records neither as original, neither as fake. It is just my "own" analysis based on several details that make "me" think it is a fake (made in England), rather than an original.

Just to say it will be now hard to convince "me" this buckle is an original since it has many details found on English fakes and not on originals, but I can't say "this one is a certified fake".

I hope everybody understood the difference.

[Paul Massucci]

I agree with what JP has said except that with justing going by the picture and not being able to measure and closely look at it in hand, I would have to say this buckle is an absolute fake.
Remember I said just going by the pic. The pictured buckle has the same die flaw which are found on the Tony Oliver OLT 62637 marked copies.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Hello Paul,

So, you saw also what YOU called the "die break" (more visible to lower right corner)? I did not see it when this buckle was first posted, but was obvious (at least a line is on the photo) when I downloaded the photos last week and used the zoom in my photo editor program.

I really need to get used to LCD Display. A lot of things are changing compared to old CRT !!

[GJR100]

Hi Jean Pierre and Paul,

Could you please explain

Tony Oliver OLT 62637 marked copies

Although I've been collecting for over 25 years now I've never been 'deep' into belt buckles I'm more of an uniform and equipment guy

MfG,
Bart

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

"OLT" fakes surfaced around the early 70's. Made in England by Tony Oliver, they were duplicating SS Buckles for EM/NCO and were marked on their back, in front of the catch, RZM SS (within a diamond) OLT 76263. If you were dialing with your phone this number at this time you were reaching Tony Oliver directly.
These fakes were the first very convincing fakes since they were not as crude as earlier production: real nice (and very close to original) die, very good details on the back, etc... For this reason, many collectors purchased them as original and this even as today. Down the road, since it was a very profitable business, the raw fake/design saw some variants: several metals or aspect were introduced to duplicate steel SS Buckles, aluminum SS buckles and/or Nickel Silver SS Buckles along with different catches. I guess everything to fool collector did pass thru the so called "OLT" fakes at the factory.
As if it was not enough, many more "end users" tried to improve them even more, like grounding off the marking and repainting the full buckle (looks like it is what could happened to your by the way with someone else who already tried to reveal this older marking), changing prongs, etc... And collectors STILL are buying those today!!
As a note, they are still running today a new production (nothing changed at least) but apparently Tony Oliver is no longer behind it.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

"DIE BREAK" spotted by Paul Massucci years ago. This photo was taken by him also and sent to me in the past - Thank You Paul -

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

...And unfortunately if you compare the photo you sent (need to download the photo and zoom it with a photo editor program) with this latest photo showing the "Die Break" line, it is just obvious (and I must use the word obvious) the two "Die break" lines are at the EXACT same position - not even half millimeter difference.

This is why, for myself, I don't even need to handle this buckle. It is a long time since I quit to believe...

[Paul Massucci]

Originally posted by Jean Pierre Redeuilh
"DIE BREAK" spotted by Paul Massucci years ago. This photo was taken by him also and sent to me in the past - Thank You Paul -

Your welcome JP,
Glad you posted that pic. I have it on my other computer's hard drive but the machine is not working.

On the mater of Tony Oliver, the way I understand things , he was very involved in supplying the British film industry with props.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Hello Paul,
I don't know his reasons, but making so nice fakes nobody will notice watching the movies...
Anyway, I will not try to find out his reasons since I find knowing reasons of original makers way more interesting

And for whoever still has some doubts about this buckle NOT been Oliver's ...

[GJR100]

Ok, I surrender ...

Hi Jean Pierre,

Thanks for this well based answer !

I've examined the buckle with a magnifying-glass and the resemblance is striking ...

So to me, there's no doubt left at all

I'm glad I've posted this here and got all this info.

Bart